(0:00:00) Claire: I did not like who I showed up as when I was in my 20s as a leader. I was not proud of that version of me that thought I had to be like a jerk. Up the boss, you know, like, I didn’t care for that, and I didn’t feel good, and I didn’t like it really affected me personally.
(0:00:20) Claire: Like, I, I didn’t like who I was showing up as. I thought that’s what you had to do to get the results.
(0:00:25) Courtney: Hi, my name is Courtney and welcome to how they scaled it, where scaling is done with both sides of the brain. Today I’m excited to welcome Claire being the founder of Confidence Cosmetic Group. With over 15 years of experience in the cosmetics industry, Claire has established confidence as the leading boutique consultancy, offering strategic guidance and expert regulatory advice tailored to the unique challenges of the cosmetic sector.
(0:00:51) Courtney: Under her leadership, confidence has grown from a side hustle to $1 million business serving over 200 clients, primarily VC and private equity backed brands, with revenues ranging from $20 million to $250 million. Claire, it is such an honor to have you here today. Welcome to how you scaled it.
(0:01:09) Claire: Thank you. Courtney, I’m excited to be here.
(0:01:11) Courtney: Amazing. Well, let’s jump in with, something super straightforward. What inspired you to start confidence? And what was the the personal experience or the gap in the market that you saw that that led to the consultancy?
(0:01:23) Claire: Yeah.
(0:01:24) Claire: So it’s a little bit, funny how I got here. I always like to start how I even got in to the beauty industry, because I feel that, some people don’t even know it’s a pathway or like an industry that you can even enter. I grew up in Ohio, so you have like, three jobs, like you’re or you’re a teacher, you’re a lawyer or you’re a doctor.
(0:01:46) Claire: Like, it’s really like it was it, it wasn’t like an option. Like I wasn’t even an option I knew about. And so I went to school to be a doctor. So I have a microbiology degree and a history of art degree, and I graduated in the magical year of 2008 and sort trying to figure out.
(0:02:07) Claire: What I had to do. With my life.
(0:02:10) Claire: And it wasn’t an ideal situation because I didn’t want to be a doctor anymore, which was pretty crazy to go through the whole process of school and then take the mCAT and then not be able to become a doctor because I was just like, I don’t. After I took the mCAT, I got a good score, and I was just like, I actually don’t want to be a doctor.
(0:02:28) Claire: That was horrible. I did not enjoy that experience at all. And then I just knew there was going to be more tests like that and more school. And I just got so tired thinking about it. But I didn’t know what to do with my life. And my father was in packaging, food packaging. And so I got a job at a donut factory.
(0:02:49) Claire: Which is very different. I can’t yeah, I can’t say how this gets. Yeah. It’s the opposite of shift. Perfect to being young. 2 to 10. No one would imagine.
(0:03:02) Claire: A doctor then.
(0:03:03) Claire: Yeah. Donut and then.
(0:03:05) Claire: Beauty. But actually all manufacturing is the same. You’re making a widget, and I got to apply a lot of my sciences off shift quality specialist, and I got the opportunity to work on a brand new project. And I was really young. And so they gave it to the young chef for 2 to 10 people, and they’re like, you know, there’s scale up R&D on this.
(0:03:27) Claire: It’s near the final stages. You guys like execute it. It was a large scale manufacturing, made 400,000 donuts an hour.
(0:03:34) Claire: So it was a.
(0:03:35) Claire: Lot of donuts. And the project that I’m working on was the pumpkin spice donut for, Dunkin Donuts, which was the most successful product launch they had had. Yeah. I don’t eat donuts.
(0:03:48) Claire: Anymore, but it was really.
(0:03:51) Claire: Cool to see everything from, like, soup to nuts, like the R&D process. The pilot, watching the production and learning about quality critical control points, learning about regulatory because it was the recession and it was very lean. I was able to like, interact with so many different parts of the business. I thought it was so cool. And there was a job posting for a job in New York, and I was still in Ohio at the time, and I was like, I would love to go to New York.
(0:04:22) Claire: Yeah. Yeah, I’d be pretty confident there’s no donut factory there, right?
(0:04:26) Claire: But there is.
(0:04:28) Claire: Postings for quality. And I was working quality and it just said, you know, you need to have it was to be young. You had to have experience and large scale manufacturing and a science degree, very minimal. I ended up coming out to New York and I got the job and it was for a very small company at the time, Tart cosmetics.
(0:04:47) Claire: So they were it was at the time very small at the time, was very small.
(0:04:53) Claire: And I think I was like one of the first 30 employees, something to that effect. So, and we, they’ve never had someone who had like my background before, and there was like a lot of opportunity for quality. And so I instituted a lot of processes. But again, because it was the recession, I was so young and everyone there was young, like the average age was like my age.
(0:05:18) Claire: So like, you’re like 25, 28, like we’re all young and we just learned how to do everything cause we like, loved working. You know, it was just. And this is why I always tell young people when they come to work for me. Like, just like work, like, just do everything that anyone gets you because you don’t know where it’s going to lead.
(0:05:35) Claire: You. And I ended up loving beauty, and it was kind of like an emerging industry, if you will. In the I was, there was a regulatory at the time.
(0:05:49) Claire: It’s like there’s nothing. Yeah. Like there’s rules.
(0:05:52) Claire: There’s like written in 1938 and there was the FTC and like, there was like some understanding. But the EU had just released their new regulations. And Maureen Kelly, the CEO, sort of like gave me the opportunity to like, learn and be like, hey, can you own this? I mean, great job on her part. Like I was so cheap.
(0:06:09) Claire: Come here. It’s like hiring, like lawyers and everything, right? But she’s like, just learn.
(0:06:14) Claire: And so I learned and I loved regulatory related to cosmetics. And so I was in Europe a lot learning from this new regulation. I was, I had kind of a leg up on certain regulatory experts and that we’d all been around the legislature the same at a time. And the only part that was different was I was actually doing the work as well as learning the regulation.
(0:06:37) Claire: So, a lot of people who are like 50 year old men, they had the same amount of time under the same legislation, but they weren’t doing the work. They’re, they’re delegating.
(0:06:46) Courtney: Right.
(0:06:46) Claire: So I was seeing it in practice, which is super cool. And through just doing it and like meeting people and always like talking to everyone, I became a regulatory expert. And from there I after almost a decade being at Tarte, I left and I went and joined a beauty brand incubator, and I was leading the team in the United States and in Europe, for regulatory.
(0:07:12) Claire: And what I quickly discovered was that I couldn’t do everything on my own. So I did delegate, and we had to find, consultants also because I could hear the headcount and people were charging me so much money.
(0:07:26) Claire: Yeah.
(0:07:26) Claire: To to like, do this work. And I was like, I know how long it takes. Does it take that long? But like, I’m paying them. And I was paying so many people for all of this work and what ended up happening was I was like, you know what? There’s so many businesses that exist that they’re paying all this work to.
(0:07:48) Claire: What I should end up doing is going, going out and doing this on my own. So I started my own consulting group, where I was the main consultant, and then I started hiring people to work with me because I was getting so many people. And then from that I became, you know, my company, coffeehouse Company group.
(0:08:10) Claire: So just like, sort of like I found a gap and I took it.
(0:08:13) Courtney: And I think that your, your journey has been so interesting because you’ve kind of, like, started on this path to being a doctor. But in that path, like, even though that didn’t work out like that science degree is what got you to where you are now. Like, if you didn’t have that degree, it’d be a lot harder to be where you are just because it was so attractive for that very specific role.
(0:08:35) Claire: Yeah.
(0:08:35) Courtney: But I also love that you started with a donut factory where regulations like food regulation must be the most like the toughest regulations to, like, understand. So it’s almost like you kind of like trial by fire. You went into the hardest regulation and, like, saw how everything worked and then went straight into like, what was that transition from food to cosmetics?
(0:08:57) Courtney: How did that feel?
(0:08:59) Claire: Well, it was.
(0:09:00) Claire: Weird because it the food is an ingestible.
(0:09:05) Claire: Yeah. And then cosmetics.
(0:09:07) Claire: Is not so great. The risk profile is completely different. And, you know, people talk about like, bioaccumulation a lot. Because they’re like, you know, I, I think a lot of people hear about an ingredient and then like, oh, that’s going to cause cancer. It’s really difficult to penetrate the skin. I think we all learned that in Covid because the skin has to be broken for Covid to get through or has to go into a mucosal membrane.
(0:09:33) Claire: But food, it’s already going in. It’s there’s no there’s nothing standing in the way.
(0:09:40) Claire: So I think having something where you control, for a different risk, like I came from something where I’m like, oh, it may be a looser risk, like the risk profile may be different, but interpreting that in terms of like, how do we control for quality was really easy to do because you’re going from you’re going down risk.
(0:10:03) Claire: So I was able to easily adapt. But it’s all in the same regulation. And you know, in 1938, the food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, food, drug and cosmetics are all regulated in the same act.
(0:10:15) Claire: So just interesting. Yeah.
(0:10:17) Claire: So it’s not really like two different, it’s just the risk is higher for food and obviously higher for drugs. But, topicals cosmetics, they’re it’s a different classification in terms of the risk profile. But it’s all in the same like understanding can’t be adulterated and can’t be misbranded. So you can apply the same principles just to a different risk profile.
(0:10:40) Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And have I mean, you’re saying like 1930 is when this like.
(0:10:46) Claire: Oh yeah.
(0:10:47) Courtney: It’s I’m sure things have changed a lot. But even since you started with tard back in like 2000.
(0:10:54) Claire: She wasn’t ten, 12.
(0:10:55) Courtney: Like, that’s ten.
(0:10:56) Claire: I always forget I think 12.
(0:10:57) Claire: Yeah. Obama was president. Okay. That’s that’s a good marker. It’s a figure. Yeah.
(0:11:03) Courtney: Pre-COVID Obama was president. Okay.
(0:11:05) Claire: Yeah.
(0:11:06) Courtney: So since then has there been more regulations come up, like how how have the regulations changed over the recent years?
(0:11:14) Claire: Yeah, it’s really interesting because, cosmetics, the way it’s regulated.
(0:11:20) Claire: Well.
(0:11:20) Claire: Let’s kind of go back. So I’m also a law school professor. So my favorite course that I love to do is take more jobs.
(0:11:27) Claire: So I also teach,
(0:11:29) Claire: A law school class at Fordham Law School. In the fashions to, for cosmetic regulations. It’s very interesting the way laws are written in the United States, especially in food, in cosmetics, is because they allow for innovation. So they’re very broad. So a lot of people think there’s no laws, when in fact there are. So you can’t be adulterated and can’t be misbranded.
(0:11:53) Claire: But what does that actually mean? Right. Through science and innovation, you understand, what adulteration means in different ways. So like, they never used to have the ability to detect, you know, parts per million of heavy metals, but now we do. So it’s really been an evolution of science and the way that we interpret an existing law.
(0:12:14) Claire: So and also.
(0:12:16) Claire: Understanding like people didn’t know asbestos were unsafe. And now we know especes are known carcinogens. So the interpretations of the existing regulations have always remained constant. You can’t have adulterated cosmetics. You can’t have Miss Brand cosmetics. But the science has evolved to create a new way of looking at that. So.
(0:12:39) Claire: In that we it’s really like keeping up with the science as well as keeping up with each of the individual states in the United States, the way that they interpret regulations. So there’s California, where they have California Proposition 65, they have the California Air Resources Board, where it’s called Carb. And the California Air Resources Board was initially for like, gas exhaust.
(0:13:03) Claire: But then if you think about the overlapping industries, cosmetics of aerosols. So that’s going in the air. So that’s also being impacted. So then the EPA comes into effect. So there’s so many different ways cosmetics are regulated. It’s really fun and interesting. And.
(0:13:19) Claire: Like that’s I love it. I am a total nerd, I love it I think.
(0:13:24) Claire: It’s so fascinating. And like for example, people are like, oh my God, formaldehyde is so bad. It’s like, yes, it is.
(0:13:33) Claire: But.
(0:13:34) Claire: There’s so many other things that are like, if if it’s there, it’s not bad, it’s the dosage.
(0:13:42) Claire: So how you’re.
(0:13:43) Courtney: Consuming it, you know.
(0:13:44) Claire: Yeah. Exactly. Like there’s, it.
(0:13:48) Claire: Is because again, you’re not consuming it. So it’s like, is that bad? Is there a bio cumulative effect? I think that’s where innovation and research is really starting to look. Is like if I use a cream every single day for my entire life, what happens?
(0:14:00) Claire: But just.
(0:14:01) Claire: Presence alone doesn’t necessitate harm. So for example, like, everyone’s like, I only want natural ingredients, so it’s a fantastic. That’s a great idea. Arsenic is natural, right.
(0:14:12) Claire: And I don’t think you want arsenic, so. So it’s also.
(0:14:16) Claire: Like there’s been an interpretation and kind of like a.
(0:14:21) Claire: Armchair Google aspect.
(0:14:24) Claire: That’s what I mean.
(0:14:25) Courtney: Like like the phrase clean beauty. Like, what.
(0:14:27) Claire: Does that mean?
(0:14:28) Courtney: That’s everything. It’s nothing. It’s like and there’s a, there’s something like buzzwords within beauty. Like when we’re marketing beauty products, it’s always like, okay, do we want to use the buzzwords? Do we not? What do they mean exactly? And I’m sure on your end you’re like, okay, what is there any kind of legal ramifications for using these terms.
(0:14:47) Courtney: Like what do they what does anything mean, you know.
(0:14:49) Claire: Yeah. And that’s sort of like.
(0:14:51) Claire: For my company. Like our sweet spot is kind of interpreting all of these ambiguous words and putting together how consumers regulate, because consumer perception is a regulation tool, how retailers themselves regulate through their own programs, as well as existing regulations and ongoing classes which evolve with consumer sentiment. And then there’s existing regulations that have new and innovative ways of being interpreted.
(0:15:20) Claire: So my company and like what I really love doing is because I’m like such a sponge for knowledge is like reading all of this and then advising people on like the appropriate way. So clean beauty like people always like, I only want to have clean products as they define clean, right? Like define what clean means to you. So arsenic for example, like if some people will say I only want to be natural, like okay, arsenic natural.
(0:15:44) Claire: So that’s out then what? And it’s really like I don’t think it’s important to know what’s not in your product. I would rather know what is right. And so if something is there, like how are you ensuring the quality like kind of going back to like my quality background is fox related. Ingredients like pigs aren’t bad.
(0:16:08) Claire: Right?
(0:16:09) Claire: What could be bad is if they’re poor quality manufacturing. They have one four dioxane, which is a known carcinogen. So I think we’ve demonized good ingredients like a fox, lay the ingredients, when in fact the demon is what is the UN pure process, the ability to make it. That does include one four dioxane talc isn’t bad. It’s bad because it’s mined with especes.
(0:16:37) Claire: It’s found especes and talc are found together, and they actually have to go through a vacuum stripping process. And it’s literally how it sounds. It’s a vacuum. Asbestos is lighter than talk and it gets pulled out. And then they do a purity. And if it’s 99.99%, which is all they can detect right now with the with the current science, then it’s, it’s free of a substance and it’s, it’s safe.
(0:17:00) Claire: But when it contains more especes then talc is unsafe. So it’s not like if a product contains an ingredient, I don’t care if it’s not there, I care how it is there and the quality around it. So what I advise my clients is when you make a clean definition, don’t just define what you’re not using, define what you are using and how you ensure it’s good quality and save them sewers.
(0:17:23) Courtney: So it’s not about being free. I mean partially about the ingredients, but it’s also about the process. So it’s kind of just like one more level of nuance that I don’t think anybody thinks about. I think they literally just look at ingredients when they’re putting whatever on their skin or eating anything. But it the process, it seems like that’s what defines how safe.
(0:17:41) Courtney: Yeah, it really is.
(0:17:42) Claire: Everyone’s like, I hate parabens.
(0:17:44) Claire: And I was like, cool. The number one like location of parabens is blueberries.
(0:17:50) Claire: Like.
(0:17:50) Claire: Are you going to hate blueberries? And there’s good heavens. And there’s bad parabens. And the EU, which has a positive listening angle is and the eat. That’s a cultural difference right? I can I can talk about that all day. But yeah it says like here’s some parabens you use here, some that aren’t because these ones are safe. But we in the United States don’t have positive negative because I think we all can see from a government inefficiency process, it’s difficult to have legislation agree.
(0:18:18) Claire: So we have regulatory agencies, like the FDA interpret with science. So actually the EU takes into consideration all of the FDA, NCI data when they’re creating regulations. So just culturally they do less negative us and we’re more prescriptive here. We are more I wouldn’t say reactive, but we’re more interpreting in a broader sense, like how the regulations are in play.
(0:18:46) Claire: And that’s why experts are so important. Right. And then, you know, I think one of the other things that really, really grinds my years is when you see those YouTube videos where it’s a man and it’s always a man.
(0:18:59) Claire: Yeah.
(0:19:00) Claire: No offense, man, but it is always a man. And they’re inside of a store and they’re like, I can’t even read these ingredients, right? They’re not safe. It’s like your education.
(0:19:11) Claire: Right? Just not exactly what’s safe. Yeah. What’s safe or not?
(0:19:15) Claire: Like your lack of knowledge of science doesn’t mean it’s unsafe. Right. Right. So there’s a lot of, like, it’s it’s a really interesting world to navigate in because then you have like, you have like the super science people and then you have like the marketing people who are just from a like a perception background. You have to like bridge the gap and create rules to create safety and, and just.
(0:19:37) Claire: You know. Exactly.
(0:19:39) Claire: And I love doing that. That’s, you know, it’s sort of like if you find your passion, you don’t work a day in your life, right? It’s not work a day in my life.
(0:19:46) Claire: Yeah. It’s like I put this in one night. I have many days. I have many days in the day. But.
(0:19:54) Claire: I mean, it’s really fun. And, like, I love employing people who also are as passionate as I am. I like finding a place for, like, the people where most people say, like, regulatory is like they have to have it, like I’m saying, who like, love it and we can fulfill that gap for you. So you don’t have to, like, find those people.
(0:20:12) Claire: Yeah.
(0:20:13) Courtney: No, I love that. Well, so as you started your business and you kind of went from tart into the incubator and then you realize, okay, I’m going to make a consultancy. Were there any challenges at the beginning or were you just off to the races, like pulling in clients immediately?
(0:20:28) Claire: So, I mean, I’m giving myself a lot of like benefit in that, like I could just do this on myself. I really, when I quit my job, when I was working at that beauty brand incubator, I had the full intent and, And idea, like, I’ll be in a consultant one day.
(0:20:45) Courtney: Yeah.
(0:20:46) Claire: I was just going to have a year of, like, me. Yeah, I like I told my partner I’m going to clean the house spotless.
(0:20:53) Claire: I am going.
(0:20:54) Claire: To make dinner every night. I’m going to read. I’m going to go to yoga. Two days. And I was at a yoga class, and they’re like the middle of the day yoga people, which I had never met before. Yeah. You guys want to get coffee? And we were drinking coffee and have nothing to talk about, right?
(0:21:08) Claire: Like I’m a New Yorker, like, yeah, I’m not working. What am I talking about? And like, I have, like, a real crisis of character and I, I went home.
(0:21:21) Claire: And I was like, you know what I’m going to do? I’m going to be a consultant today and see what happens.
(0:21:27) Claire: Yeah. So I made a LinkedIn.
(0:21:28) Claire: Post about it.
(0:21:30) Claire: And what ended up happening was it kind of went a little viral about like starting my own business and like why I’m starting my own business. And that day I had like, I signed five clients who saw it.
(0:21:43) Claire: Oh my gosh. Wow. Just like five random people.
(0:21:46) Claire: I mean, I’m connected in the industry. So it was like five random five people. Yeah. And then my partner came home was like, so I accidentally started a business.
(0:21:55) Claire: We’re doing really well, and how this goes. Yeah. And also.
(0:22:00) Claire: From Ohio. So my dad’s like, that’s not a real business. Go get a real job.
(0:22:05) Claire: But I was like, I.
(0:22:06) Claire: Think, like, I’ll just do this for like a couple months.
(0:22:09) Courtney: Right?
(0:22:10) Claire: And I loved it. And I realized how much the industry was lacking, like expertise in terms of regulatory. Everyone had been sort of like working on this basis of trusting their manufacturers or trusting like marketing, trusting so many disparate sources. But there’s no central location, like grounded in the regulations, but also science and so what I ended up doing was serving as a resource to so many companies just by word of mouth.
(0:22:41) Claire: Yeah, they’re like, hey, I know you’re working with so-and-so. Can you help me work together? And then I started working with, like, you know, the, the private equity companies who have like, big portfolios and they’re like, we’ve gone through due diligence processes before. And I feel like that’s the regulatory is the the worst every time. Can you go clean up some of these brands?
(0:23:01) Claire: And I ended up hiring people who I used to work with who were sort of like at jobs or regulatory was again, underserved as a weren’t being treated well. A lot of them are like mothers also. So the work life balance is really challenging. And they and they’re responsible people will get their job done. But like maybe the traditional hours of work wasn’t working for them.
(0:23:22) Claire: So I designed some of them. Like, I know you’re nursing the night you’re in charge of all of Korea.
(0:23:27) Claire: So just like work.
(0:23:28) Claire: On Korea and you can sleep during the day or like.
(0:23:30) Claire: Doing that. Yeah, yeah.
(0:23:32) Claire: And so the company really involved in that I was like a need. And then the company like we just kept getting better by word of mouth like and working more and more with all these different people that we were like, you know what? We’re actually a resource for the entire industry. I don’t think that we’re like brand specific.
(0:23:52) Claire: We’re really agnostic in terms of like with men’s care, women’s, if it’s fragrance, the rules and principles are all the same. It’s not proprietary. And I think it’s a disservice to the industry to have this information not being shared. Because it also feels sort of like it’s gate cut. Yeah. And like, it’s not easily accessible and like everyone’s like, what’s the industry practice?
(0:24:14) Claire: But like is it. And so we wanted to serve a function for the industry so that consumers ultimately when they get safe products, they’re truthfully advertising, they’re run in a repeatable fashion. And we’re giving people like the resources to do it. And then we get to live our lives as like happy, carefree women who are just like, you know what?
(0:24:34) Claire: I love doing what I’m doing, and I love getting better at it.
(0:24:37) Claire: Yeah.
(0:24:38) Courtney: Well, so because you were like, I’m not going to work for a year, and then immediately you’re like, I have to work.
(0:24:44) Claire: Yeah.
(0:24:44) Courtney: Do you think that you just needed to be your own boss? Like, do you feel like you just needed to have like, because I imagine you were getting burnt out at your your your role, which is why you were like, I need to take a year off and just, like, be a human again. So like, did you kind of like, learn anything about yourself through that process?
(0:25:02) Courtney: Because that feels like a pretty major, very quick change that you made.
(0:25:06) Claire: I hear. You know.
(0:25:07) Claire: Looking back, it was insane to make that change. I still like to go. I was very fortunate in that I had a, a long tenure with him in the industry, working for brands where I was paid very well, and I had the privilege of taking a year off to like, kind of discover it. I found out quickly that I’m a person who enjoys working.
(0:25:32) Claire: Yeah.
(0:25:33) Claire: I figured that out very, very quickly.
(0:25:35) Claire: Your Midwestern values. Yeah. Just like my dad said. We were put on this earth to work. Yeah. I don’t know anyone else through any other part of the country. Response. Parents tell them that, you know, I, I just.
(0:25:48) Claire: Like I like working like I find pleasure in it. I learned that I’m probably never going to retire. Retirement may look different for me right, than others. But you.
(0:25:59) Courtney: Just bring it down to one job instead of three.
(0:26:01) Claire: Yeah, just one job instead of three. Like, maybe.
(0:26:03) Claire: Like, not every single manufacturer in the entire world would.
(0:26:07) Claire: Like to. I don’t know, right?
(0:26:10) Claire: I enjoy it like, it’s it’s fun. I learned, you know, in that two day period that I also, I wasn’t setting up my work life in a way that, like, was healthy, about what was important. But like, going the complete opposite way was also not healthy. Like, there is a balance and I, I, I’m, I would love to meet the person who has it figured out.
(0:26:36) Claire: I have a balance yet. But I did realize that there’s priorities in my life that I need to put in place, and I can’t be like 100% work or 100% right. Or like, I need to find a middle ground. And to be fair, play for me is literally going to bed.
(0:26:50) Claire: Yeah. It’s not in the midday yoga class.
(0:26:53) Courtney: Yeah.
(0:26:54) Claire: It’s like going to yoga. Like going to the gym. Like that’s not real. But I.
(0:26:58) Claire: Did learn, like, I think I always was my own boss. I think some people always are their own boss. No matter if you have a boss. I always had bosses who were like, here’s the work you need to do and do it. But then, like, I would also create my own work, right?
(0:27:16) Claire: Right. And I would.
(0:27:17) Claire: Like, go, you know, poke around in other areas and like, I love helping people.
(0:27:23) Claire: Yeah.
(0:27:23) Claire: And it never felt like I was being intrusive. Someone like you will come to me and ask me for help, and I would help them. And it wasn’t like I would never say, like, that’s not my job. I just want to learn more. And so I never really had, like, I think I had my bosses always were like, I always got like exceeding expectations.
(0:27:44) Claire: All my reviews. Again, I’m a woman who’s a perfectionist. So like, yeah, like I would get exceeding expectations. Never. And then when they’d say one three and then I’d be like hyper focus.
(0:27:54) Claire: On, hey, that is that. I’m like, how dare you? Yeah. But like I love learning.
(0:28:01) Claire: And I think curiosity is like the best boss to have. You know, I just like, take that into all areas of my life.
(0:28:08) Courtney: Yeah. I love that curiosity is the best boss. That’s. Yeah, I do think that we’ve grown less curious as, like, people. Because I think it’s because it’s so easy to find an answer, not.
(0:28:21) Claire: An answer, but.
(0:28:22) Courtney: An answer. It’s so easy to, like quickly Google something or potentially accept and then like, okay, that’s that’s what it is without being a little bit more curious to ask the second question. So I really like that that concept.
(0:28:35) Claire: What are our.
(0:28:35) Claire: Favorite things to do? My partner, when we’re, we don’t take our phones like on Saturdays, we go to the dog park and then we go to the farmer’s market. That’s at the dog park, and we go home. We don’t take our phones, and we’ll be, like, talking and, like, remember a movie and, like, trying to figure out who that person is.
(0:28:53) Claire: I’m like, oh, what actor was it? And like, if we had our phones, we could Google it. But our favorite thing to do is and like, look at someone to be like, who’s the actor? Blah, blah.
(0:29:00) Claire: And then like, no phones allowed. Yeah. And then they’ll be like, oh, I don’t know. And like it ends up being like, it’s kind of like fun like game. Yeah, yeah. But like, honestly like you. Yeah.
(0:29:11) Claire: It’s so easy to find an answer.
(0:29:14) Claire: Yeah. But like, the.
(0:29:15) Claire: Pathway is like more interesting. I made friends that way.
(0:29:19) Claire: Like,
(0:29:20) Claire: It’s sort of like when you’re in regulatory also, there’s never one answer. There’s many answers. But what’s the best answer? And you have to, like, collaborate with people and have like, tons of experts in the room. I call people all the time or some projects where I haven’t even built them because I’m like, I want to know this.
(0:29:36) Claire: These answer, not personal. That amount of hours are ridiculous to be built for this one answer, right?
(0:29:42) Courtney: I need to know.
(0:29:43) Claire: What I need to.
(0:29:43) Claire: Know. And like it’s probably not a best business model. But.
(0:29:47) Courtney: Working for you.
(0:29:49) Claire: Yeah, but I enjoy.
(0:29:51) Claire: I enjoy finding an answer that’s the best, not the answer. And knowing that always changes. And being flexible.
(0:29:58) Claire: Yeah.
(0:29:59) Courtney: Yeah, that’s that’s that’s a really good way of kind of just realizing the world is very gray.
(0:30:05) Claire: So worlds.
(0:30:06) Claire: So gray. I wish it was black and white and like, I, I wish it was binary. Yes. No. But it’s like I mean my partners in tech and that is yes. No.
(0:30:15) Claire: And then I’m like, well,
(0:30:17) Claire: And like, I can argue with myself 900 different ways and that’s interesting.
(0:30:23) Courtney: Yeah. So you’ve, you have a team of five, is that right?
(0:30:29) Claire: That’s correct. Yeah.
(0:30:29) Courtney: And but you have like a ton of clients. I think you have over 200 clients that I guess.
(0:30:35) Claire: Yeah. Might be more now. Yeah.
(0:30:37) Claire: Active clients is definitely over 200.
(0:30:40) Courtney: Yeah. So how can you ensure kind of that quality personalized service with such a small team. Is it just by systems or how are you accomplishing that.
(0:30:51) Claire: So,
(0:30:53) Claire: Depending on who you ask. Well.
(0:30:55) Claire: And depends on the day.
(0:30:56) Claire: Yeah, I’m doing really well. Some days I’m not doing really well.
(0:30:59) Claire: But yeah.
(0:30:59) Claire: It’s really like organization and time blocking. So we have like priority clients and those are going to be our retainer clients. And so they’re always at the top of the queue. They’re always the top priority. There’s project based clients that that like have set timelines. And then there’s like ongoing business where like maybe it is just like they’ll ask you questions here or there.
(0:31:20) Claire: There’s the ones I don’t think I service as well as I’d like to, but really it’s about, technology, honestly, and software investment. We use I think one of the greatest tools out there is notion to make it whatever you want. I am obsessed with. Yeah. Like you can do anything in notion like, really like having, like, a Kanban board and like, just like moving projects around and like with the team, like identifying what’s next and like, then, putting all of the unfortunately, everyone asks the same question.
(0:31:54) Courtney: Yeah, yeah.
(0:31:55) Claire: No, no, no. Like, we have the best.
(0:31:58) Claire: Answers that we’ve created and then we revisit those often. So like a lot of questions that like a lot of like other companies do, take them like an hour to answer. Right? We’ve really been asked it before so we can service them by a database of questions and answers with a huge thank you with like thousands of questions.
(0:32:18) Claire: Another thing is we have like strategic partners where we work with technology companies to develop software. So one of those is ethos, they’re a huge PLM company that does product lifecycle management, and we use them strictly for the regulatory software. And like quickly became a super user because the amount of data that we have and we need to control is really proprietary.
(0:32:44) Claire: So they really work closely with us like on expediting regulatory reviews and like having a central database of order documentation while maintaining strict confidentiality with all of our clients. And then another one is a good phase project, which is an amazing company that has like billions of people that work there. Feels like I’m sure they’ll say they don’t feel sorry for billions of people and coders and everything they develop like really quick and fast, enduring ways to do things like in terms of regulatory review.
(0:33:14) Claire: And we we meet with them regularly saying like, hey, here’s what, here’s what we’re getting from a lot of our clients. Is there a way you could build this for us? And they use these as like, use cases to, like, sell their product. And so we get, you know, you know, reduced rates to work with them because we’re like also like working on DevOps solutions for us to work better.
(0:33:33) Claire: So one is like partnerships. The ability to service our clients is like from a technology partners. And then to is just like internal like control of like making sure that we have the resources that our team needs. So that we can quickly service everyone.
(0:33:49) Courtney: Yeah. I’m a little surprised that, that tech is like, such a big part of what you do because it doesn’t. Yeah. Your your work does not feel like tech focused at all. But I am a big believer in system that whenever people are like we’re at capacity, it’s like, are you at capacity or do you not have very good systems like.
(0:34:08) Claire: Yes, we.
(0:34:09) Claire: Invest.
(0:34:10) Courtney: Yes. Like you have this huge knowledge base. I love that that you can reference all the time. But then figuring out how you can use tech to make your stuff faster and more efficient and like, build things to your clients, that’s that’s brilliant.
(0:34:24) Claire: We and we use like, we’re integrating a lot more. I like Claude, for example, where we set up individual. Oh yes. So like we build up the database in cloud for our projects that like, here’s all of our knowledge for Europe and then like, we’ll like queria we don’t rely on it to be like asking like a ChatGPT methodology of, like asking the internet.
(0:34:48) Claire: Right. Because like, it’s only as smart as the person asking the question. We provide, our information in the cloud as a project, and then we query Claude, release the information, ten year. So we’re talking to ourselves. We’re not talking to the internet. And it just, like, a faster way is someone can ask a question so many different ways.
(0:35:09) Claire: Like, maybe we’ve already answered it. So, like, if we’ve already answered it, like, what could cloud to us about the data that we’ve already done? Technology is like super important really, because also so I don’t know how, I’m going to assume baseline knowledge, but like when you get data about a formula, you’re getting like all of the raw material information and what that looks like is, an antiquated way of providing you PDFs that are flat documents, that you can’t just, like, look into.
(0:35:42) Claire: And there’s all of these attributes. So the attributes will be like, you know, the source of the raw material, for example, like, is it how long is it kosher? It’ll have all these attributes. And what our team does is we load them into software’s like ethos, all of these attributes. And then we query the attributes. So we’re it’s a lot of manual work, but it gets faster and faster and faster the more you have.
(0:36:06) Claire: And so we can query these attributes. So having tech is like preventing us from going and doing the manual work repeatedly.
(0:36:13) Courtney: Over and over and over.
(0:36:14) Claire: Again. If we invest in the time to put it into a query model, we can have the ability to go perform faster.
(0:36:21) Courtney: Yeah. That’s yeah. It’s amazing. So your clients are mostly coming from, venture capital, private equity. How have you been able to build those relationships? They. I know you’re pretty well connected just from your previous work, but are there other things that you do to kind of maintain those relationships?
(0:36:39) Claire: Yeah. So a lot of dinners.
(0:36:42) Claire: I, I love going.
(0:36:44) Claire: Out to dinner, if anyone’s asking. I like French food.
(0:36:47) Claire: Yeah, yeah. But really, like.
(0:36:50) Claire: It’s it’s sort of like when you, we work, you know, the majority or about 80% of our clients are brands. The rest are divided up between retailers and main factors. And when we work with so many different partners, eventually someone gets acquired by someone. It’s about the relationship. It’s about. Also, I send a lot of my team and I did it myself to personal transformation workshops.
(0:37:14) Claire: It’s about who you are in that relationship and like who you show to be and like who you are is who wants to work with you’re difficult, which is frustrating. Documentation questions is frustrating. I got prior to this, I was on a call where someone was so mad about something that I’m like, that’s that’s an old story. Like, let’s address the issue at hand.
(0:37:35) Claire: The issue is we need to address these specific questions.
(0:37:38) Claire: Right? Right.
(0:37:39) Claire: It’s it’s really like showing up on like who you want to be and who you want to work with and like continuing to show up that way. And when you show up that way, people want to keep giving you business because it’s such a kinder and gentler way than other ways people work. And so, like, I know it sounds like easy, like don’t be difficult.
(0:37:58) Claire: But like, it’s hard. It’s nice.
(0:38:01) Courtney: Especially when you’re doing the same thing over and over again, answering the same questions over and over again. And, and it is like a lot of people find this stuff boring, so they don’t want to do it. So like the client participation is, I’m sure, a struggle because they’re like, we just want to make cute make up. Like you’re like, yeah, but we have to do all this other stuff.
(0:38:21) Courtney: So like, I get how that could be challenging.
(0:38:24) Claire: And it’s like really fun to see it at the end product. One of our big clients that we love working with is Papa Tui, which was founded by Dwayne The Rock Johnson. And, the Rock is so much fun to, like, work with. So, like all the stuff that we take for granted, we’re like, oh, this is an incredibly efficacious formula.
(0:38:46) Claire: He’s like, oh, I love that word.
(0:38:48) Claire: And he’s like, you know.
(0:38:49) Claire: All this advertising. He’s like, this is efficacious. And I’m like, it’s really fun to see that. But like.
(0:38:56) Claire: You kind of.
(0:38:57) Claire: Every time you go into a project, you can’t take for granted that you’ve heard the question before, it’s new to that.
(0:39:04) Courtney: Person. New question. Yeah. They’ve never had it’s a brand new question.
(0:39:07) Claire: And so like granting grace is like creating something that is new for them. Like, you can’t be like. I mean, one of the main mottos of my company is don’t be a dick.
(0:39:18) Claire: Yeah.
(0:39:18) Claire: Just don’t like, be like super nice. And if it’s frustrating, be like, I’m really frustrated today. Can we do this tomorrow? Yeah. Like if someone hears that, then they’re like, no. Then, like, we can evaluate that relationship. But like, if they say like, yeah, which most people do, then be the person you’re worried and manage manager tomorrow. So it’s really like showing up as like the best version of yourself every day, which is really challenging and difficult.
(0:39:44) Claire: But like again, it’s if you love the work, you also can enroll someone in loving the work too. It’s not difficult because they see the end results. They see the Roxane efficacious. They go, oh wait, this resonates. Consumers like this. Hey Claire, what are some more fun science words?
(0:40:05) Claire: Yeah, yeah. I was like, trans epidermal water loss, right? But like. But you know, it does work. It does work that way.
(0:40:13) Claire: Yeah.
(0:40:13) Courtney: So this is that kind of describe your leadership style as well. Just like okay, let’s just like all show up for each other. It sounds like you send people to like, workshops and.
(0:40:24) Claire: Expert.
(0:40:25) Claire: And just seems like you.
(0:40:27) Courtney: Like hiring women and giving them, you know, the space to be mothers. Like, that’s kind of. I mean, it’s not like, super radical, but it’s a different way of thinking about hiring. But how would you describe your leadership and how it’s changed over the years?
(0:40:41) Claire: I, I, I.
(0:40:43) Claire: Did not like who I showed up as when I was in my 20s, as a leader, I was not proud of that version of me that thought I had to be like a jerk. Up the boss, you know, like, I didn’t care for that. And I didn’t feel good, and I didn’t like it really affected me personally.
(0:41:03) Claire: Like, I, I didn’t like who I was showing up as. I thought that’s what you had to do to get the results. Yeah. I then, I then started doing that transformational leadership work on myself and learned new ways of showing up. And as a leader, I want to not only treat people how I want to be treated.
(0:41:25) Claire: Sometimes you just have to get the job done and it’s like a hard conversation. But when I have this hard conversations, I say, I’m going to have a difficult conversation. Is it all right if we have that? Are you in a good space for that? Yeah. And like asking their permission. I know it sounds like totally like lame.
(0:41:42) Claire: Yeah. But like, if it works, but like, I also it’s.
(0:41:48) Claire: Just more information, like if they don’t want to join a difficult conversation and they repeatedly don’t join a difficult conversation, that’s information for me that maybe that’s not the best fit. I never fire people and I haven’t fired people in like a decade. They know where they stand with me and usually they go, I’m finding a new job.
(0:42:09) Claire: And they say, yeah, let me help you find that job that’s the best fit for you. Because I don’t like letting go of people because it’s like their livelihood. And like, also we work in a country that doesn’t offer health care. And so like.
(0:42:21) Claire: If, if the way.
(0:42:22) Claire: That you maintain your health is through your employer, then it’s very rude to be taking away someone’s health from them. Right? And so like we do operate in a world in which health care is like given to the citizens, I have to like, respect everyone’s decision. And then if they’re not the best fit, find alternatives for them elsewhere and not take away their health.
(0:42:42) Claire: But I’ll do. And I never give up on people. And like all of my employees that I’ve ever had, I probably only.
(0:42:49) Claire: Have one person.
(0:42:50) Claire: Who probably does not like me and like, listen, I was not the best version of me either. Yeah.
(0:42:56) Claire: But, like.
(0:42:56) Claire: It’s not about being liked. It’s about, like, liking yourself, I think.
(0:43:01) Courtney: Yeah. No, it’s such a refreshing take on the hiring process. I think, a lot of people are like, it’s just business. It’s not personal, but.
(0:43:10) Claire: Right.
(0:43:11) Courtney: It absolutely is.
(0:43:13) Claire: Yeah.
(0:43:13) Courtney: It’s like when you, like, I’ve built this team and like, you like, I don’t know, I. I have a really hard time letting people go and and making those decisions for exactly that reason. Or it’s like, this is like your life. I know your family. And. Right. I think that, the way you approach is that’s really it’s kind of interesting because it’s definitely a different way of thinking about it.
(0:43:35) Courtney: Then I would say, like most CEOs do. Yeah.
(0:43:40) Claire: Yeah. And feedback is feedback. And I always like that’s why I send them. There is a, an expert to handle that. So I’m really good at that. Yeah. But like feedback is feedback and like it’s not about you personally. And like I really expressed that like depersonalization of feedback is incredibly important because feedback is just an experience that you created for someone else and you can’t discount their experience.
(0:44:05) Claire: But maybe it’s not the experience you meant to have. And that’s a disconnect. And wherever someone’s experience is like, really far from what you meant to have, that’s where resentment grows. So offering feedback and bridging that gap is going to like reduce the ability to have resentment. And that’s why difficult conversations are so important to bridge that gap like in one jump.
(0:44:25) Claire: But really it’s like continually talking back to each other, but also understanding that it’s not about you, it’s about the work. And I think a lot of people think they’re giving feedback when they’re making it personal. They’re like, you didn’t do this right? Rather than like when, when I didn’t receive that on time, I was really concerned about the client, and the client’s not really happy.
(0:44:49) Claire: Yeah. How can we like access to be better next time? And when? It’s a weird conversation, it’s not about, like you didn’t do something. How dare you? Now I have to go and, like, it’s so. Yeah. So driven. Right? It’s. It’s not really useful. I mean, a lot of it is like I went on my honeymoon in Tahiti, and it’s a privilege that I was so grateful to have.
(0:45:11) Claire: But I was like, on this small island, called Tara. And in the island, all the women who were at the grocery store had their children at work with them.
(0:45:21) Claire: While they’re.
(0:45:23) Claire: In line at the grocery store.
(0:45:24) Claire: Yeah.
(0:45:25) Claire: And everyone there speaks English, and I speak passable French. And I was speaking to them about this and they’re like, yeah, it’s just very typical. Like, you bring your children to work and like.
(0:45:38) Claire: You know.
(0:45:39) Claire: It’s like a community. And like, I was so inspired by their way of working that, like, I want to create that for myself.
(0:45:46) Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. That’s so interesting. And also, you mentioned how when you were in your 20s, you had a different look at leadership and you’re like, I didn’t want to be a jerk. And I, I feel like there’s something that happens a lot and I don’t want to over gender things. But I feel like a lot of times when we look at like, who’s the most powerful, most successful business people?
(0:46:09) Courtney: And they’re these men who are at times cruel or they’re, they’re all about the bottom line. And, and they’re, they’re aggressive and they’re they’re angry a lot, and they’re always moving and, I think that that’s how we see success. And so then we try to emulate it. And I’ve always been of the mindset of, like, I don’t I don’t want to act like a man in order to get ahead.
(0:46:33) Courtney: I want everyone to act more like women, because I think that we’re better at communicating and doing all these, these like soft skills, which are I think are much more beneficial to leadership. And so it’s it’s hard to like move through that. But I think everyone goes through that process of being like, oh no, I’m tough and I’ve got to be a jerk in order to get ahead.
(0:46:53) Courtney: And then you realize, like, but if you treat everyone like a person and you play to their strengths and you support them and you’re you genuinely have, you know, love and support for them, then everyone performs a lot better and no one’s stressed out and you just get better results overall. So I think, like, I think we’ve all been there.
(0:47:15) Claire: I mean, yeah, it’s so true.
(0:47:16) Claire: Like, I think we all show up like who we think we have to be. When we’re young. And then there’s definitely at a time where, like, you can do two paths so you can keep doing it, or you could choose something.
(0:47:32) Claire: Else and.
(0:47:34) Claire: I was really grateful that I chose something else. I chose a different way to show up. I think the only reason I’m successful is because I chose to show up as a different way as a leader. And like also when I say successful, I have like a different mindset related to success. I think a lot of us like, like you were saying, we look at these like people who are successful and it’s like companies is not the only metric of success.
(0:48:04) Courtney: Right?
(0:48:04) Claire: Like if I have a I do there’s like an activity that, I do annually is called like a life wheel. And it like, looks at all the different parts of my life. And I may be killing it at work, but maybe my finances aren’t where they want to be. My body isn’t where I want it to be, like there’s so many other parts of my life.
(0:48:24) Claire: Like, am I successful at work? Yes. But is my life successful? Is that the legacy I want to leave behind? Like, do I want to be someone’s story? That they have this shitty boss? Like that’s a legacy no one remembers, like all the other things, if you’re shitty to them and then, you know, that’s like, that’s not the legacy I want to lead.
(0:48:48) Claire: And so what I, the metrics of my success is like different than like, I think what society is and certainly with what like men have like, you know, and I also like as someone who’s worked on like a lot of men’s products and with a lot of men in those product spaces, my favorite thing is like, men think that they’re like talking about business, but they’re like straight up gossiping.
(0:49:15) Claire: It’s my favorite thing about men. They’re like, I’m talking about working on like, girl, you’re gossiping and then you.
(0:49:21) Claire: Pay for it. And I’m like, I love it. But like, just call it what it is. Yeah, I have the same.
(0:49:26) Claire: Also, women have it just.
(0:49:28) Claire: Like we call it.
(0:49:29) Claire: Gossip when it’s a woman.
(0:49:31) Claire: But man is talking business. But like, they’re just like a bunch of little girls. Like peeking on the playground. And so you have to, like, keep it like with every.
(0:49:42) Claire: Successful person that you see as like, I don’t judge the metrics of success by like the money they have in the bank, but like the life that they’re leaving, the legacy they leave behind. Because I know a lot of very successful men that they’re like little gossip queens.
(0:49:56) Claire: Yeah. The only difference is, is there a man and a woman.
(0:49:59) Claire: There that may be a bitch.
(0:50:01) Claire: So like so like there is.
(0:50:04) Claire: A lot of gender that relates to it. But I think like judging how you personally define for yourself success and kind of ignoring what society does. Yeah. It’s really it’s really a lot nicer way to live.
(0:50:17) Courtney: Yeah. Yeah, I, I agree you got to let go of a lot of the like the preconceived what it’s supposed to be and make it what it actually needs to be. Yeah. So when you’re looking ahead for the next couple of years, sounds like you got a lot of stuff going on. You’re doing some, like, what are you what do you where do you see confiance being, in the next five years.
(0:50:39) Claire: Yeah. So really, it’s growing my team and giving them the tools and the resources that they need and providing opportunities for them to grow. I want my team to certainly have more resources. We have a lot of clients where we started working with them really small, and now they’re really big and it’s like also like transitioning those clients to what they need internally and being partners with them.
(0:51:07) Claire: So, you know, some of our clients we got, we started, you know, when they were like, you know, like a piece of paper. Yeah. And now and now they’re like 50 million. Some of them are selling like millions of dollars in just five minutes. And it’s really nice to see. But like, our job is to serve as, like an advisory.
(0:51:26) Claire: So like, transitioning those people to hiring for them what they need internally and serving as an advisor. And then also for a company kind of like becoming that that bedrock in the United States for regulations. Like, I would love for every company to be like, that’s a company that I trust, and I can go to if we don’t charge like lawyer prices, but like we if we’re struggling with like our business, like we know that’s where we need to go.
(0:51:53) Claire: And I don’t think a company yet exists like that in the United States. And I would like to become that, that company here where we have a full service regulatory quality that we can offer someone to build their beauty brand and their vision at any size, not just like a big companies.
(0:52:13) Courtney: Yeah. That’s a it’s a great vision and I think you’re well on your way. Because it does seem like you kind of offer something that they really can’t get anywhere else. So that’s, that’s a good start. I also, I love that your, one of your goals is to be like, I want to make it so our clients don’t need us anymore.
(0:52:31) Claire: So, like, I like, they don’t need help.
(0:52:33) Courtney: Like, we always talk about this because we we work with a lot of, like, startups and people who are getting funding and stuff, and they’re, they’re, they’re plateauing. And then we take them and we scale them and we give them growth. And one of the best things that can happen is for a client to, like, graduate from us because they’ve gotten acquired.
(0:52:53) Courtney: And so the acquiring company already has a marketing team, or they do so well that they’re able to hire an internal marketing team. And while it’s so sad to see them leave, it’s like, but like you were here and now you’re here and like, it’s it’s always just really nice when they when they, we always call them graduating to the next level.
(0:53:10) Claire: Yeah, yeah. I love when I love.
(0:53:12) Claire: I tell everyone I love working myself out of a job.
(0:53:15) Claire: Yeah, we do well.
(0:53:16) Claire: We’ve done well. And usually what ends up happening is like in the due diligence process of an acquisition, like cleanup work is not really there. Yeah. And like nothing makes me more excited than a law firm giving me like three actions when some law firm was like, If I’m going in, we’ll give me like 300 actions to clean up.
(0:53:36) Claire: Yeah.
(0:53:36) Claire: Like the ability for companies to sell faster and have that due diligence process faster. Pre acquisition cleanup is a huge cost. If we can do that from the onset and you don’t have to worry about that. Like you’re saving millions of dollars and potentially post-sale acquisition. We’re moving millions from escrow to clean up prior to the sale final.
(0:53:59) Claire: So like we love working with companies to make sure that they understand, like your job is to be acquired. Our job is to make it faster.
(0:54:07) Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Well, so think about, something I always ask everyone, when you think about you back when you were first starting, confidence. Would you give yourself any advice, knowing what you know now.
(0:54:23) Claire: Don’t take every customer.
(0:54:25) Claire: Oh, okay. You don’t need it that bad.
(0:54:28) Claire: Yeah.
(0:54:29) Claire: Yeah.
(0:54:30) Claire: I think a lot of people, like, are so fear driven. Yeah, like they have to work with everyone or else there’ll be no one like you don’t really have to.
(0:54:39) Claire: Yeah, like being.
(0:54:41) Claire: Picky and choosy isn’t like a negative. It’s about like I tell people, like, when I’m not doing a good job, like I’m not doing a good job. I recommend someone else who can better service you. And some people get really mad at me. Like, they’re like, they’re listening to you. Yeah. I’m like, yeah, but I’m not like, I turned in everything you need.
(0:55:03) Claire: But I don’t think the work is, like, ideal, and I’d recommend working with someone else. Like, I would definitely have told myself, like, if you have a gut feeling it’s not going to go well, probably one.
(0:55:13) Courtney: Yeah, yeah. I mean, trust your gut every it’s takes so long to learn to trust your gut.
(0:55:20) Claire: But yeah.
(0:55:21) Courtney: It’s yeah. Every bad decision I’ve ever made, I’m like, well, I did have a gut feeling about that.
(0:55:26) Claire: Yeah.
(0:55:27) Courtney: So just listen to it.
(0:55:28) Claire: I know, like, if I also like, I don’t choose brands that I don’t believe in.
(0:55:32) Courtney: Yeah.
(0:55:33) Claire: And I took a lot of people that I didn’t believe in their brand. It’s like, well, why did I choose to work with them?
(0:55:40) Claire: Right, right. And I’m here.
(0:55:42) Claire: Of not having enough. That’s right.
(0:55:45) Courtney: Yeah. And it’s I think that once you start really believing in yourself and really believing what you’re doing is good and seeing that proof, then it’s a lot easier to say no to the, you know, the clearly like, bad choices. But whether or not you said yes or no to those people at the beginning, you’d probably still be where you are today, so you might as well you say.
(0:56:04) Claire: Exactly.
(0:56:05) Claire: You’re kind of where you need to be. And yeah, like where you need to be is where you are. So like, I’m completely fine with like, learning those things because I am not someone who can be told that. Like, I have to kind of learn it on my own. Yeah. And so like, unfortunately, I think failure’s the best educational tool.
(0:56:24) Claire: Is it finding that failure like make sure it’s safe, but like, you know, it can be okay.
(0:56:29) Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. This is a really fun, interesting conversation. Where can people find you and, confidence online?
(0:56:40) Claire: We are at dot com fiance cosmetic.com com fire and ski. It means confidence in French.
(0:56:49) Claire: Oh love.
(0:56:50) Courtney: It. And we’ll link to that all over the place. So hopefully they’ll be able to just click. And thank you so much for being on the show. And thank you to everyone at home or on the go for listening. And if you enjoyed today’s episode, please make sure to subscribe, share with a friend. Leave us a review if there’s anything you’d like to see or hear on an upcoming episode, just let us know.
(0:57:11) Courtney: And for more insights, follow us on LinkedIn or visit Right Left agency.com and we’ll be back next time with more stories of success, innovation and marketing strategies to help you grow. See you on the next one.
