How Good Product Can Change Consumer Behavior with Chaz Dean

Courtney: (00:00)  Hi, my name is Courtney and welcome to How They Scaled It, where scaling is done with both sides of the brain. On this show, we sit down with growth stage businesses and speak with the founders and industry leaders of the e-commerce and SaaS sectors. We showcase their journeys, unpacking the pivotal moments, marketing strategies, and key decisions that shaped their success. From passion for photography to building a billion dollar beauty empire, Chaz Dean has never played by the rules.

Chaz: (00:07)  It’s okay.

Courtney: (00:36)  While most of the haircare industry focused on suds, lather, and sulfates, Chaz took a completely different approach, one that defied everything we thought we knew about hair. Chaz is the founder of Wen Hair and Body Care, a brand that has disrupted the beauty industry, challenging the traditional approach to haircare. And with over 40 million bottles sold, Wen became a QVC powerhouse, attracting a cult-like following, celebrity endorsements, and redefining self-care. But Chaz’s journey isn’t just about creating a good product. It’s about changing consumer behavior, building an authentic brand, and turning skeptics into lifelong customers. Chaz, welcome to How They Scaled It.

Chaz: (01:15)  Hello, thank you.

Courtney: (01:17)  Of course, of course, we’re so excited to have you here. You… Yes, been a journey I bet, and you’ve had such incredible success, but I know that you’ve been at it for a long time and you’ve kind of been through it all and seen a lot of things, so I’m hoping we can dig into a lot of that today.

Chaz: (01:20)  I just absorbed everything you said as well. Like I kind of took that in like, yeah, that’s, yeah. Yeah, I’ve been doing it literally, I would say, my whole life since right out of high school. So yes, I’m ready.

Courtney: (01:44)  Amazing. Well, before you became the household name in hair care, you were a photographer and you were pursuing photography. How did you transition that into the beauty space?

Chaz: (02:00)  took photography all through high school, two and a half years in high school, and I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. A week after I graduated high school, my family moved to Arizona. I was only 17, so I had to go. Didn’t want to go. I had to go in the middle of summer in Arizona. No, no, 115, 20 degree weather? No. So I went to school and I took a commercial course in photography. And my plan was go and take that course and then move back to California, because I’ll be 18 then. So I did that. Gave me a great foundation even deeper for photography and composition and all of that and what is it you’re trying to translate within this photo. And I thought I was ready to move back to California and then I came for a visit and I’m like, this is a huge city and I’m 18 years old and I feel like I just want more experience under my belt. And I shot photography, I shot models and I just knew that I wanted to create myself the hair and makeup that I was shooting instead of me meeting with a makeup artist and a hair stylist and telling him what vision I saw in my head. If I could do that myself, it’s what made most sense instead of hoping you understood what I see in here, which I don’t think it’s always gonna hit the mark. So I went to school for hair and… That’s where the journey really, really started. And I still do photography today. I just last week shot our labels for our new, it’s gonna come out in the summer, our fall, or sorry, our summer passion fruit is coming out this summer. So I just shot the labels. It’s in my garden. It grows in my garden, because I’m vegan at my garden. So my passion fruit on my vine. So I still do my photography. It incorporates in my line that I launched 25 years ago. I’ve shot every label basically.

Courtney: (03:37)  Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I mean, that’s like such a scrappy approach to say like, you know, the hairstylist and the makeup isn’t getting like because you’re as a photographer, you’re creating this art. And so the subject of your art are these models. So to say. Okay, I don’t want to pay you to have to do the thing that’s not even quite right. So having to be like, okay, I guess I’ll go to school for hair. Like do that. Did you find that when you were in school for hair, you’re like, this is actually my career or were you still saying I still want to be a photographer at that point? Yeah.

Chaz: (04:06)  What’s in my head? Oh no, I knew that. It was weird. It’s funny because I never thought about that as you just said it. No, the funny part is, I knew that it wasn’t, it’s not that it wasn’t photography, but the focus was hair. So yeah, no one’s really asked me that, but it’s true. When I was going to school for hair, it wasn’t like, oh, this is the side bit because of photography. It was hair. It was weird. And I think you’re just like a therapy session. I never really thought about it.

Courtney: (04:24)  Yeah. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (04:49)  But even like when we were in high school and you take those, I don’t know if they’re called aptitude tests, whatever it is where you’re trying to figure out what field you want to go into. I never fit into any of those boxes. Like, none of them. I didn’t want to sit at a desk. I didn’t want to sit enough. None of them really.

Courtney: (05:03)  Yeah.

Chaz: (05:07)  moved me and I didn’t know what I wanted to do in high school with all those tests. So when we moved to Arizona, I told my family, my mom and dad, that I wanted to go to school for photography.

Courtney: (05:08)  Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (05:20)  My dad was a little more closed minded. Like, well, okay, if it’s what you want to do. In his mind, they’re all kooks and weirdos in his mind. He’s like, they’re, you know, cause it’s not the traditional corporate world. So he’s like, if it’s what you want to do, you know, we’ll support you. My son being a photographer, okay. And then when it became time to say, go to school for a hair, I’m like, God, how’s this one going to go over? So I said hair and he kind of thought the same thing. Okay, that’s not the traditional and it’s not, it’s not what the traditional is.

Courtney: (05:24)  Yeah. Yeah. Hahaha

Chaz: (05:49)  So yeah, it was that element and I’m blessed the fact that… I was adopted and my parents have always been, as long as it makes you happy, we’re happy for you. They didn’t have to agree with it or understand it or be in their wheelhouse, but if I was happy, they were happy was the bottom line. So I’m grateful for that. So yeah, it’s funny you say that, because when I went to school for hair, I didn’t even think about it. It’s just I jumped into it and I loved that and that was it. And I think part of what it said, that’s why the therapy session is.

Courtney: (06:03)  Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (06:20)  think I kind of probably wanted to do that, but it was like, was segue into it maybe, and I was afraid, God, how are they gonna take it if I tell them I wanna be a hairstylist, God forbid? So yeah, I just realized this is it, and on my back was photography on top of that.

Courtney: (06:22)  Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, yeah. Well, and also just being able to, because I think I saw you talk about how when you first started hair, you were taking before and after pictures. And so that was bringing your photography in. And that, mean, that was before social media and before everyone was doing that. And so that, I mean, that was probably really set you apart from other hairstylists at the time.

Chaz: (06:47)  I still do. I still do. Yeah, that was like 30 years ago. And there was no such thing. I mean, I developed the film and all that then. Yeah, I just, did. One, no one did. Even honestly now with social media, I have to fight my style. It’s not fight, I have to.

Courtney: (07:13)  Yeah.

Chaz: (07:14)  fight with them to take their befores, take their afters. I’m like, you guys don’t understand. I had to go to the mall and go to the makeup counters and go up to people and say, try to get them as clients. All you gotta do is post on your social media and they barely do that. I’m like, you guys don’t know how easy it is. We had to go up to strangers and say, oh, hi, I’m Chaz, come in and see me. You don’t have to do any of that. All you do is post it and they come to you.

Courtney: (07:20)  You Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (07:38)  But it’s hard to get them to do that. Yeah, it is bizarre and funny that I was way, I was way outside the box. Because even then, hairstyles didn’t take all their befores and afters. It just, wasn’t. To me, I wanted to see that transformation. That’s why I’ve always done it. And to see that transformation is what…

Courtney: (07:50)  Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (07:58)  Once it’s gone, it’s gone. You have nothing recorded unless you take the photos of it. And that’s why I that even to this day and I do before and after slo-mos and before and after videos because it’s to see here’s how she came in and here’s how she left. Look at that magic. So yeah, yeah.

Courtney: (08:07)  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it’s kind of, I think also like plays into the artistry of it where it’s like this, you’re telling a story of like, this is what it was before and this is what it turned into and here’s how it happened. And so I think that there is something just so magical, like you said about that. Cause it also like, you can see the change in their confidence when you see a before and after of like a really good hairstyle.

Chaz: (08:34)  100%. I used to do hair and I used to always, up until, well, I don’t do it anymore. I always did and I think it was, I know it was, I’m not gonna say I think it was, I used to always turn the clients around so they weren’t facing the mirror. I always did. But in all honesty, it’s because…

Courtney: (08:48)  Yeah.

Chaz: (08:52)  I’m being honest, I didn’t want to look in the mirror at myself all day. I really didn’t. I didn’t like that. I wasn’t comfortable with that. So I would always turn them and the reveal was always, okay, close your eyes. And I would turn them around. So it became a thing that I did. But a big part of it was that I didn’t want to face the mirror all day. It was weird. Is, but something that came up yesterday, I want to say as you’re talking about it, I forget who it was. Jaren, you were here when we talked about photography and that people that work for me.

Courtney: (08:56)  Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Interesting, yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (09:22)  everyone, I teach them how to have the right eye in photography. It’s like people that start out like, hey, can you take a picture? It’s like, my gosh, that’s really bad. Let me show you why and whatnot. And I just teach them. I have people that have started out that have no vision whatsoever. And they don’t work with me anymore, but they’ve gone out into the world and they’re amazing photographers now. I taught them what I was taught in high school and seeing things and composition and how you’re lining it up and the placement of everything.

Courtney: (09:33)  Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (09:52)  And it’s like, do that with all of them and I still do. So even people that work for me, especially assistants, because I teach them to take the before and afters, I’m like, they come in not knowing anything about it. I’m like, they’ll come in, they’ll have this much headroom up there. And I’ll ask them, like they’re trying and I’m like, okay, what do you think could be better about this? Like, there’s too much, I’m like, exactly. I want to see what’s going on here. I don’t want to see what’s going on above their head. So it’s, I teach them and it’s like, it is a great, I think it’s great. I’m like, because it goes outside of just the Harris prep.

Courtney: (09:52)  Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (10:22)  So it’s in the world, photography and taking that. So yeah, yes on my hairstyles, but just so much more than that.

Courtney: (10:22)  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well clearly I mean, so you went kind of from photography world into hairstylist and then you decided to create your own products because what was out there on the market just like wasn’t working for you. Can you tell me about like how you decided like I’m gonna go make this product and then I’m gonna start selling it.

Chaz: (10:48)  Well, it started because the company I worked for coming out of beauty school the company I worked for when I started and I was only an assistant I just I’m a Leo Scorpio rising Virgo moon Which means a lot of passion for a lot of things and you get things done. So I just asked them one day I’m like you have your own product line, but you order your deep conditioners from the beauty supply To me as a 19 year old kid. That doesn’t make sense Why and they said well if you want we’ll set you up with a lab and you can help us create one

Courtney: (10:58)  You Yeah. Wow.

Chaz: (11:16)  I’d never done it. I’ve never, I’ve, I cooked, I’ve cooked since I was a kid. So I’ve always enjoyed recipes and stuff like that and whatnot. So I’m like, to me, it was interesting. I’m like, yes, of course I would love to do that. So I did. And we did a deep, I did a deep conditioner for them. It was called Reconstructor. We launched that. It did great. People loved it. It was fantastic for your hair. And they came to me a couple of months later and said, we’re thinking of doing a more natural product line. Would you be interested? My element was yes, but what will I get out of it because I knew I did it once right. Was just like, barely a thank you, but kind of. So I said, well, I get of it. And again, this time I was like 19, maybe almost 20. And they said, well, just prove to us you can do it first and we’ll talk about that later. So I wanted exactly that’s the red flag, but I was 19, maybe almost 20. And I wanted, I love doing it. Yeah, I love doing it. I wanted to do it. And to me, it was growth. And I knew that like, I want to learn this. I wouldn’t have that opportunity on my own. So yes, I’ll do it. So I did do it.

Courtney: (11:48)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Right, right. It a cool opportunity, too. Yeah. Yeah. Mm.

Chaz: (12:16)  I created a Primrose shampoo, sage conditioner, rosemary conditioner for them and it took a little over a year because I kept pushing, pushing, pushing. I’m like, my name’s on it. When it’s done, it’s done. It will be ready when I’m proud of it. So launched that and long story short, in my mind throughout that year, I thought, okay, because there was no dialogue of what I’ll get out of it. So in my mind, I had a dialogue of I’ll get 15%. That was at the beginning. As the year went on without even talking to them in my head, in my own dialogue,

Courtney: (12:23)  Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (12:46)  knowing them, I talked myself down from 15 % to the time we launched it, I was down like 3%. Without even talking to them, talking to just knowing that they didn’t reward in that type of way. So when it came time to figure out what I was gonna get out of it, I met with them and I went from 15%, remember down to three in my own head, no dialogue. So I met with them and they…

Courtney: (12:52)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (13:10)  put a contract across the table for me, turned upside down. I should have known that was a red flag turning it upside down. I flipped it over and they offered me a penny per bottle for every bottle manufactured.

Courtney: (13:15)  But yeah. My gosh.

Chaz: (13:21)  And my heart went like right now it does. Each time I think of that, I’m like, are you kidding me? Like if I work with someone or someone worked for me and they did it for me, I offer them a penny. To me, that’s like stabbing you in the back. That’s just messed up. So I get, didn’t have to invest money, but it’s a product, three products you wouldn’t have had without me doing it. I did it with the lab. So it was just a slap in the face. Never even saw that. And I never even pushed on it because I knew a hundred, a hundred products equaled $1. So I’m like, I just was trying to get to, how do I get to a thousand dollars? It’s insane.

Courtney: (13:25)  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

Chaz: (13:51)  So I never saw that. And the part is this answers your question you asked me. They came to me a couple of years later after they screwed me over with that and told me they were thinking of selling their salon.

Courtney: (13:53)  Yeah. Mm.

Chaz: (14:04)  And they offered it to me because I was one of their top stylists there. And this was in the Glenn Center. And at first I thought, no way. Cause even when I worked for them and I was their manager, didn’t pay the system managers, they didn’t pay you anything. There was no salary for it. It was just a title. And I’m like, just show me it means something to you. Just pay me minimum wage, which then was like under $4 an hour. So under $4 an hour, just pay me $120 a week just to show my giving of

Courtney: (14:13)  Yeah. Right. Yeah. My gosh. Yeah.

Chaz: (14:34)  time and dedication means some $120 a week is all I wanted. Show me it means something to you. Didn’t do that. So when they offered me the salon, number one, I asked for that for managing just give me minimum wage again, $120 a week. And that was not I wouldn’t even get all that because taxes. And then when they screwed me over in the product, I already knew. So when they offered it to me, I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, I’m like, you’re not going to stab me back yet again. But then I thought about it. And I waited out. Like, you know what?

Courtney: (14:36)  Right. You pass. Right. Yeah. Right?

Chaz: (15:04)  I can make this work because what it was is they were a chain salon and this one was in the Glenn Center and because it was in the Glenn Center it’s a multi-million dollar neighborhood, it’s Bel Air. It’s one of the richest neighborhoods in California and these women are not gonna walk into a chain salon. So I had told them change the name because they wondered what’s going wrong, what’s happening and as… As a stylist would leave and go open their own salons, they had talented stylists, but they didn’t have their own clientele. So they lost people that had their own clientele is what was happening. And I said, if you change that name to anything but Carlton, it’s a great salon. You have great stylists here. These people’s egos, not letting them walk in. It’d be like saying I’m going to Burger, I’m sorry, you’re going to fast food rather than a high, what is it called? A Michelin star restaurant. They’re not gonna do it. So.

Courtney: (15:32)  Right. Right, right. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Right.

Chaz: (15:53)  In my mind, I thought, I can do this because the only thing that’s standing in the way of this being a successful salon is their ego. So my lesson is get your ego out of the way. Don’t let your ego get involved and think about it. If someone brings something to you, weigh it out and like, wow, that does make sense because I did do it. I did end up buying it from them. I had to borrow money from my grandfather, which we didn’t come from money, but he had enough to lend me for the opening and paid them back on that. But my element is, that I changed the name and with within four

Courtney: (16:00)  Yeah. Right?

Chaz: (16:23)  six weeks it was buzzing and it’s just I didn’t have any money so I painted it hang some hang roses that people gave me for the opening upside down it was that shabby chic hair in the 90s and I just made a vibe out of it and it hustled and they lived in the neighborhood and they would be up there all the time and they’re like I don’t understand what did you do how did you do it’s like

Courtney: (16:25)  my gosh. Yeah, yeah.

Chaz: (16:45)  I told you all you do is change that name. There’s

Courtney: (16:47)  Yeah.

Chaz: (16:48)  not much different. Yes, I made it more cozy, what not what I could, but it was the element of that our ego was in the way.

Courtney: (16:50)  Right, right. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (16:55)  answer your question. The day I purchased this salon is the day I knew I was going to give up lather because I had been experimenting with the products I made for them with the sage and rosemary conditioner and I started on day one and I cleansed my hair with the sage and rosemary because rosemary is astringent, sage is moisturizing. I did day one because I was so oily. I used to be really oily. I would have to shampoo and condition my hair twice a day, morning and night because I would

Courtney: (17:01)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I’ll make a mess.

Chaz: (17:25)  rob my scalp. I remember the feeling when I would lather, my scalp would tighten up. I remember that feeling from 30 years ago. My scalp would tighten up and it felt horrible. And as the day went on, my oil glands would start to replenish, my scalp would be oily, my ends would be dry, but I’d have to cleanse because I was oily at the scalp. So twice a day, 14 times a week. So the day one when I opened my own salon, I’m like, you know what, I don’t have to do this anymore because I had to sell their products. And I thought, I’m going to just try this.

Courtney: (17:30)  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (17:55)  So day one was sage and rosemary mixed together. Day two, sage and rosemary mixed together. Day three. And I just kept going on. And to this day, May 1st this year will be 32 years that I have not lathered hair, face, body, skin, anything. So it was just a test to see how long can I go without lathering. And then I went to my garden and I got sage, rosemary, lavender, eucalyptus. I went up to Mulholland and got the eucalyptus and I boiled this

Courtney: (18:01)  Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (18:24)  all in my kitchen and it was just like a tea, an elixir. There was no, it wasn’t creamy like a conditioner, it wasn’t creamy like a shampoo, nothing like that. It was literally just like an elixir tea. And I cleansed my scalp with it in the shower and it was tingly. I’m like, this works and it feels good. And I’m onto something and that’s when I went and met with the lab. But I didn’t tell them what I was doing or trying to do because I was afraid that one of these huge top companies was gonna steamroll me and steal my idea.

Courtney: (18:43)  Yeah. Right. Right? Yeah. Well, I mean, like you’ve had like all these like terrible experiences with these larger, this larger company that did kind of, they didn’t steal your idea, but they didn’t reward you for it fairly. Yeah.

Chaz: (19:01)  They almost did, they almost did. We’ll get to that, remind me, they almost did. Because after I did this for years and I told them about it, because I was excited at first, oh, we don’t use shampoo, because I would order my Sage and Rosemary that I created for them, but not the shampoo, because I didn’t use shampoo anymore. And when I first told them, like, oh, man, that’s weird, whatever. And then as the years went on, they’re like, wait, tell me, you told me you don’t use shampoo, you never ordered shampoo from Just Condition. Like…

Courtney: (19:08)  Yeah, yeah.

Chaz: (19:25)  We’re good. It’s like, cause I knew now they knew I’m onto something, we’re gonna steal it. So go ahead, but they were going to steal it. They came and they’re like, they knew he’s onto something. What is it he’s doing? Go ahead.

Courtney: (19:26)  Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think that what I really love about your story is that you had this like bad experience where you kind of got ripped off and you were betrayed. And but when the opportunity presented itself, you let go of your own ego to say. Okay, like let’s look at this and see how I can make the best out of this situation of them offering me the salon. I think a lot of people would say, screw you, like you didn’t help me.

Chaz: (20:02)  I am so glad that’s exactly where you went, because that’s my message I try to say is, I could have been disgruntled, I could have been pissed off, I could have held onto this for the last 30 years that they screwed me over, and I would have lost all this. I did, and that’s what people have to realize. Yes, bad things happen. How can you make a diamond out of that bad thing that happened to you instead of living in that and staying in that? I’m glad you recognize that, what my message is is so many people, bad things happen, they hold onto it. Or again, we’re not going in this direction, but even childhood, if it’s things that

Courtney: (20:08)  Mm-hmm. Right, right. Yeah.

Chaz: (20:32)  happened to your child holding your parents okay you’re an adult now they did that it’s the best they could the best they knew let that go and you need to otherwise you’re hostage of that it’s the same thing with this so many people hold on to stuff that it’s holding them back from their good you have to know that like no I wouldn’t invite that experience again but

Courtney: (20:37)  Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chaz: (20:50)  Again, if I didn’t experience that, I wouldn’t be where I’m at today. So you have to use it as a stepping stone and how do I rise out of that and come out of that? And again, if I was disgruntled and pissed this whole time, this never would have happened. So this is for everyone. Like if you have a bad experience, how can I turn that bad experience into gold or into a dream that you want to have happen?

Courtney: (20:54)  Right, right. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, and like still recognize good opportunities and then also bad offers so like you’re like, okay This this shop is in a really good location to be really hard to start this on my own So and I can make this work so I can like really do well But then also when that company came to you and said tell me more about your cleansing conditioner You’re like, no, thank you like like I think that you still were able to recognize the good opportunities from the bad opportunities using what you learned but also taking advantage of like, you know your own belief in yourself and I’m honestly impressed that you were to do that when you were so young.

Chaz: (21:47)  Yeah, I was in my 20s at all of this, which is, yeah, yeah. I think I do believe it’s, it is my Leo and Scorpio and Virgo and all that because it’s, I’ve always been driven and focused. I really have and follow that. Yeah, you said something I was going to bring something up, but it’s all good. It’s all good things. Comes back, I’ll remember.

Courtney: (21:58)  Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, so once you started, so you’re like, okay, hair care is the future for me. I’ve kind of discovered this way of not having to lather and eliminating shampoo. So you still had your salon going. How did you start to, did you just start selling the product or what kind of was the challenge to get to the point where you were like getting customers and selling?

Chaz: (22:32)  Well, the funny part is, it’s all connected because I sold the sage and rosemary conditioner that I created for them. And it is because the difference is, it was conditioners that weren’t loaded with… Usually a conditioner was designed or still is designed to detangle your hair. I didn’t design conditioners to detangle your hair. I did them to help stimulate the scalp and hydrate the hair. So that’s what was different. Is it never built up because it never weighed down your hair because it didn’t have the polymers, fillers, binders and waxes that…

Courtney: (22:38)  Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

Chaz: (23:02)  detangle and weigh down your air. So I would literally that I ordered that from them until the time came for me to launch mine. So I would take the sage every client that came in, we would have to empty it into a bottle and mix. Was one third Rosemary, two third sage, mix it in. And that we would have to for every customer take that home. You’re going to take this home. Here’s what you’re going to do. And it wasn’t until they realized not, not only was I doing this, but their point was you never order shampoo from us. You only order the conditioner.

Courtney: (23:32)  Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (23:32)  how and why. And at first I told them, like I said, but then when they came back again a second time, they realized this man’s onto something. He took over our salon. He made a success of it. He developed our products for us and now he’s onto something else. I want to know what that is. I’m like, mm-mm. Like he came in, he came in asking my other stylist, yeah, last time I was here, he told me something about he doesn’t use shampoo. And then she started to tell him like, mm-mm, don’t tell them, because I know what they’re going to do. They’re going to rip me off again. Yeah. And it was hard because even as I was creating it,

Courtney: (23:36)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Trade secret. Yeah.

Chaz: (24:02)  I didn’t tell the lab that I, I told the lab, you make me a shampoo? And then these two conditioners, and I was only going to launch one, but it was the starting of these are my foundations. Let’s start here. So as the time went on and I took five years to perfect it. And a part of it was I didn’t have the money. So I had a way to add money to launch it, but it took the five years to perfect it. But as the time went on, I kept changing the conditioners. Can you add this? Can you remove this? A little bit more of this, a little less of that. And one day they like probably

Courtney: (24:20)  Yeah. Right.

Chaz: (24:31)  two years into it, they came and said, we keep making all these changes on the conditioners, but we haven’t done anything with the shampoo. I’m like, oh no, we’re good with that. That one’s good. Never planned on launching shampoo, but I still couldn’t tell them because I was afraid if I told them, I was this little guy with no money, and if they tell one of their other customers, oh yeah, we have this guy who’s creating these conditioners and not shampoo, I’m like, I really was afraid someone was gonna steal it from me. So.

Courtney: (24:37)  Yeah. Right.

Chaz: (24:56)  Having fast forward from again, that was now 1995 and I was launching it in November of 2000. So when it came time to launch it, I made sure I had my patent pending. Had everything in line. But when it came time to launch it, I was so used to shielding it and protecting it. I was almost afraid to talk about it and sell it because I was afraid someone was going to snowball. I’m like, okay, you have your patent pending. You’re good now. Can let it out there to the world. But it was so coveted and so

Courtney: (25:07)  Yes. Yes. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (25:26)  protected because I used to work with L’Oreal. I used to work with them and go to classes and it was that line that they knew I was working on something and they would have me test their new products and stuff and I’m like, it’s getting to where I can’t because I need to do my thing and they knew it but I also didn’t want them stealing what my thing was and I had to be quiet about it. It was crazy so I had to remove myself from that because I would work with them when they were testing colors because I love color, I’m a colorist and I love that part but when it got in

Courtney: (25:29)  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (25:56)  into their styling products and other products. Like I can’t do that color. I can, but I can’t do the others. It’s a conflict. So yeah, it’s, got used to putting a shield around and protecting it that when it came time to launch it, I’m like, I have to talk about now. Have to know and exhale and know it’s okay. I’m protected. I just felt like it, that.

Courtney: (26:00)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (26:19)  that even with me launching, getting it out there that someone still, cause it’s coming steamrolling on me. I knew I had the patent pending and it wasn’t until the patent came through that I’m like, okay, I can breathe now. It’s like, patent pending means you have a pin in it. Doesn’t mean it’s locked in. So it wasn’t until I had the patent that I’m like, okay, get out there and talk about it. And then once you do, I already had the five plus years of having every client that came in, you’re not getting a shampoo. And they just told each, each one and that people would see

Courtney: (26:24)  Right. Okay, we can do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (26:49)  and recognize it, you would see the TV shows. Would know it, but you would see the difference in their hair. And if I told you, she’s my, like, of course she is. Because I saw her hair go from dry, fried and this and broken to beautiful, healthy and shiny. I’m like, that’s my girl. And it wasn’t even called Wen yet. It’s just called Chaz. Was Chaz. It was just Chaz. You’re going to see Chaz. Yeah, I’m going to see Chaz.

Courtney: (27:00)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, how did you come up with the name when like where where did that come from?

Chaz: (27:17)  I knew, okay, everyone that came into my door, I would tell them, because they thought I was crazy. It’s like if they could have put me in an institute or a straight jacket, they thought I was crazy until they did it. And they’re like, okay, this really does work. Because they hear you’re never going to use shampoo. It’d be like me telling you today, you’re never going to use toothpaste again. You’re like, up until now you need that or deodorant. Well, some people don’t, but toothpaste, I have to. So if I told you you’re never going to use toothpaste again, it’s like, but I have this alternative. They’re skeptics because they’ve always used toothpaste.

Courtney: (27:25)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (27:47)  their whole life. People shampoo their whole life. To hear I’m never gonna do that, I’m gonna like, okay, they told me, I’m like, you love her hair, you came to her because of her hair, correct? Yes, I’ve seen the change in her hair, that’s why I’m here. I’m like, I promise it works as long as you trust me. And you’re gonna cleanse, rinse, repeat, just like shampoo.

Courtney: (27:47)  Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (28:04)  shampoo, rinse, condition, rinse, same steps. I’m not changing anything. You’re just not going to lather. And they’re like, but isn’t that what cleans your hair? I’m like, no, lather doesn’t clean your hair. It strips your hair. It strips your color. It strips your hair. It strips your natural essential oils. And that’s why you have the viscous cycle. It’s why you have the dandruff, all that stuff, because you’re robbing it. And then you don’t have the good bacteria that work that off. And it’s a vicious cycle. So all the bad things that happen are because you’ve stripped it. Squeaky clean doesn’t mean clean hair. It means literally Stripped hair. So when they heard that and understood I said as long as you trust me I promise it works. So as they left they would say, okay It doesn’t make sense. You want me to cleanse with conditioner, but I trust you So everyone would say it sounds backwards that doesn’t make sense. That sounds backwards and I would say promise it works So having heard that for five years I’m like everyone always thinks it’s a backwards approach and I would say it’s a backwards approach You’re cleansing with conditioner. It’s not polymer conditioner filler conditioner

Courtney: (28:34)  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (29:04)  It’s a cleansing and I didn’t have the name cleansing conditioner yet. I had to think, what am I calling the product? I didn’t even have that. I’m like, I’m naming that instead of shampoo conditioner. I’m like, well, you’re cleaning and you’re conditioning. I’m like cleansing, conditioner, cleansing, conditioner. So that came up first. First was cleansing. Like, what am I going to call it? Not shampoo. I knew that. Not just conditioner. I knew that. So cleansing, conditioner came first because I’m like, you’re cleaning, you’re conditioning. And that makes sense. And then I thought, what am going to call it? I’m like, well, I always tell everybody it’s a whole new way of looking.

Courtney: (29:07)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right, right.

Chaz: (29:33)  at cleansing your hair, and everyone thinks it’s a backwards approach. So I wrote new on a piece of paper, and I held it up in front of a mirror. I wrote a lot of three-letter words. I knew I wanted it to be three letters. I knew I wanted to have a very zen feel. And then I wrote when. No, I wrote new on a piece of paper, and I hold it in front of a mirror. I’m like, new when, new when. Yeah, it’s a backwards way. People think it doesn’t make sense. It’s backwards. New, spelled backwards, is when. And like, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense.

Courtney: (29:36)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what a great story. I love that. And I think one thing that you’re kind of like talking about is a lot of this discovery and figuring out how you’re going to talk about the product and like what the product is happened in these five years where you were keeping it really shielded and you were scared to talk about it. But it feels like you were doing so much customer research and so much education and figuring out what people’s objections were because Ultimately, what you’ve done is you’ve had to change consumers behaviors, which as a marketer is extremely difficult. So you’re educating and changing someone’s behavior. And so I think all of that work that you did and even coming up with the name of being like, well, the feedback is that this is backwards. So I’m going to like play on that. I think that that really helps you in those five years. So when you launched, did you feel like you had like a very clear message to tell people? Because how quickly did you get onto QVC? Because that seems to be like what really took off.

Chaz: (30:56)  I launched, it took me five years. So I launched again, I gave up Lather and nine. So it’s a process. I gave up Lather in 93, started working on my very own. I like, did the, cause again, I did this sage and rosemary mixing all that for the first three, two years. And then I’m like, okay, what’s that? Yeah.

Courtney: (31:03)  Yeah. So scrappy. Just mix it together.

Chaz: (31:17)  So I did that for two years and then finally I’m like, and I had to find a lab and do all that stuff too, because I didn’t have all that. So once I did that, I went to the garden, the sage, rosemary, lavender, eucalyptus and all that, I’m like, okay, this is my starting ground. And also, I also did research of cleansing, clarifying, astringent, hydrating, moisturizing, emulsifiers, all those sort of elements and what will really get the work done and so forth. That was the element. So I went to the lab, I’m like, here’s my starting ground, but I need to now take this too.

Courtney: (31:22)  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (31:47)  the next level. This is like a foundation where it’s starting but and that’s why it took five years because we need to take this now and take it to a whole other level and that’s what we did like I don’t even have Sage and Rosemary now but if I compare that to what WEN is I’m like it’s like a concept was like a bicycle compared to a Ferrari and I’m making that up you get what I mean? It’s like here’s where we’re starting wheels but here’s the wheels we’re ending up with so yes and then as far as the people like you said I was a one

Courtney: (31:56)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (32:17)  100 % confident because I knew I’m like this is what we use on you feel your hair. They’re like, I don’t get it. How can it be so light? So because that’s the other thing is people are shocked that it’s so light. It feels bouncy, but it feels lighter. And as part of that my styling products as well because my nobody wanted products in their hair that weighted down. So I knew I had to create something that is not going to feel weighed down. It’s going to do the opposite and it breathes life into your hair. So that’s the other part is when I do my leave in conditioners, my styling products, I put a lot in your hair.

Courtney: (32:28)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (32:47)  I’m like, feel your hair, like, my God, that’s so much. I’m like, and then I’ll cut their hair. I’m like, feel your hair now. Like, where did it go? So by the time I’m done cutting it, like, where’d go? I’m like, that absorbs into your hair. It’s not filled with the polymer’s fillers that is sitting on your hair or weighing down your hair. And like, they’re blown away, but I’m like, think of it like helium in a balloon or blowing air into a balloon or they heat up into a hot air balloon. It’s filling it up and it’s becoming lighter and more airy and more bouncy. And that’s what blows them away is how much product I do put in their hair.

Courtney: (32:47)  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Right.

Chaz: (33:17)  to protect it from the heat, to hydrate it, to help give it bounce body and volume and shine. And then the end result, they’re like, how? I’m like, because it’s not filled with all the nasty stuff, all those chemicals. So it was, it was easy to talk about because obviously you can see I’m very passionate about it 30-something years later.

Courtney: (33:29)  Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and then you were able to get onto QVC and so I think that’s great because you were you were probably just speaking directly to the population about what it is and I think you’re obviously a very good salesperson. Did yeah, did it all just kind of like take off straight up from there or did it take a while to build up?

Chaz: (33:52)  Could be something to help me with that. It, it, the element for QVC is like, had a client who was on QVC. Her company was called Lather and she was on QVC and I knew it and I didn’t know. I only knew my mom used to shop. My mom passed away 24 years ago of cancer, but she used to shop on QVC. And back then in the nineties, I’m like, mom, you’re supposed to go to the mall and shop. You don’t shop from TV. You can’t touch it, feel it, smell it, any of those things. And she did. And she had the last laugh because she passed away in 2001.

Courtney: (34:22)  Right, right.

Chaz: (34:29)  and four years later, I was on QVC and we used to teaser. We used to not, like we had a great rapport, but teaser like, mom, go to the mall, go to the store, come with us. She’s like, no, I’m good. I’m watching my QVC. So the element was, is I thought, cause I had clients that told me, you should sell on QVC. I’m like, no, I know what that is. My mom used to do that. And I’m sorry, I’m being honest, but I thought that’s a little weird. It’s not. But I thought about it and I knew that my product was a product that

Courtney: (34:31)  No. Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah.

Chaz: (34:59)  Again, it’s the first of its kind. So even if I was in Sephora, where are you gonna place it? There’s shampoo, there’s conditioner, where does this go? And even if it does go on a shelf, what’s gonna happen? Because no one’s gonna know what it is, because it’s new. So I realized, yeah, you’re right, I do need a captive audience to explain it. I knew it needed to be explained. Once it’s explained, all rest unfolds. So this was in 2000.

Courtney: (35:02)  Yes. You need to educate. Right? Right. Yeah.

Chaz: (35:24)  for that it started. So 2004, I would ask my client, hey, can you help me or guide me to QVC or get me in? Some people are like she did a little bit, but I think she thought if I bring you on, that means I get less airtime. And some people think that I’ve never thought the way anyone that doesn’t like, here you go, whatnot. But some people do. And it’s like, I’m not stealing your thunder. Yours was body stuff. And I didn’t really have that much body stuff at the time. So in September of

Courtney: (35:25)  Mm-hmm. Right? Mm.

Chaz: (35:52)  2004, I don’t know if you remember, Desperate Housewives became like launched and became.

Courtney: (35:56)  Yeah, it’s huge,

Chaz: (35:59)  one episode and they were everywhere. Every bus stop, every, worldwide they were everywhere. We hosted an Emmy style lounge right before Desperate Housewife aired and Terry Hatcher, Marcia Cross, Nicolette Sheridan was my first celebrity client so she was already my client. But they came to my style lounge and we gifted them the WEN products and that was in September. By the time November came around I forged a friendship with Terry Hatcher because she loved the

Courtney: (36:01)  Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah.

Chaz: (36:29)  music we were playing and I lived on the property and when she wanted privacy I brought her to my house where I lived and some privacy and whatnot so we forged a relationship a friendship and in November she invited me to her

Courtney: (36:30)  Yeah.

Chaz: (36:42)  at that time, 50th birthday party. And so I went to that and Desperate Housewives by this point, only two months later, yeah, from September to November, only two months later, they had a house account set up. They bought WEN from us and shows don’t do that. They’re gifted everything, but they literally set up a house account with the WEN and they would purchase it from us and come and collect it and use it on all the girls. So I went to her party and I walked in and the first person I saw

Courtney: (37:00)  Wow.

Chaz: (37:12)  was Eva Longoria. And Eva Longoria actually was a WEN girl even before I launched WEN from 1999. She was married to Nicholas Gonzales and he introduced me to her and she used it even when she was on her soap operas in 1999. She would use my sage rosemary stuff. So she was always a WEN girl and so when I walked in and party she was dating J.C. Chazay at that time from

Courtney: (37:19)  Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (37:37)  in sync and she said to me, Hey, Chaz

Courtney: (37:37)  Yeah, yeah, in sync.

Chaz: (37:41)  and he said, Hey to me. It’s like, they looked at each other. How do know Chaz? How do you know Chaz? And in sync was using when as well? Cause my girl, my best friend was their makeup artist. So they looked at each other like, I didn’t know you knew Chaz. Do you know Chaz? So as I went through the house, next one was Terry Hatcher. And what was cool is I went upstairs to his bathroom. She was up there and she goes, my God. Cause it’s the first time I seen her since September, the party. My God. My God. I just have to tell you Chaz, I’ve never been known as the

Courtney: (37:48)  No way. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (38:07)  with the good hair, look at me, look at my hair. And she was so excited. I’m like, my gosh, that’s amazing. But her testimonial right there was like everything.

Courtney: (38:15)  Yeah.

Chaz: (38:15)  Then I went downstairs. Getting to your QVC thing. I apologize. Went downstairs and Felicity Huffman was there and I never met her. I’d never met her. She was there with William H. Macy, her husband. And I went up to her and I said, hi, I’m Chaz. Cause I knew they all use it cause they order it for the set. Said, Hey, hi, I’m Chaz Dean with Wentz. Goes, Oh my gosh, honey, this is the guy. And she whacked him. This is the guy with Wentz. You know, the tea tree that’s in her shower. This is him. And she was all excited. I went into the next, this is real. I went into the next room and Marcia Cross was there. And I said, hi, Marcia.

Courtney: (38:17)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (38:45)  said, you came to my style lounge in September. I didn’t get it. I didn’t see her there. I didn’t even know she was there. I didn’t get chance to say, oh my gosh, I love your fig cleansing. They all had the ones they love their favorite. I love your fig. And she told her girlfriend, my hair, it’s because I am. So all these girls were blown away. The other part is at the beginning, Eva Longoria told me, I need to come by and get more of when this week. I said, well, hold off. Don’t do that yet. Because they were nominated for the Golden Globe. And I was bringing them gift baskets. I was going to bring that as they’re

Courtney: (38:51)  Yeah. My gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (39:15)  So I said, don’t do that yet. And here’s where it connects the story. I, they came in to pick up when and they said Oprah was coming in in January of 2005 and it was Oprah’s birthday the day she was on set. They’re like, we’re wondering if you’d want to do a gift basket for Oprah. I’m like, yeah, hello. I’m like, going to say no. So I did a gift basket for Oprah. I’m cutting the story short because I almost didn’t go to the set that day, but my assistant who was a black girl and that’s important because I wanted her to translate to Oprah that it works on all hair. She goes, Chaz, if I went and I met

Courtney: (39:34)  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chaz: (39:51)  and you didn’t go, I would feel horrible and you would kick yourself. I’m like, you know what, you’re right. I’m giving up that opportunity to potentially meet her. So I said, I’ll go. So we went to the set. We brought it. They said, do you want to go down to the set and give it to Ms. Win for yourself? I’m like, yeah. So they let us on set. We went down. I handed the basket to Oprah. I’m paraphrasing because so much happened on that day. Handed her the basket. And she said, is this why all their hair looks so good? I’m like, they all use when? The men, the kids.

Courtney: (39:54)  Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Chaz: (40:20)  the whole set, everybody used when. The hairstyles, makeup artists, everyone in the whole set used when. It was amazing. And she’s like, wow, that’s why their hair looks so good. And I’m like, yes, and it works on all hair types. Boom. I told her, Holly, Halle, Tisha, ask your girls, they’re all on your show. Ask them, they all use when. And she left there. She left there walking away. And this is a lesson for people as well. I never let people call it shampoo. If ever they called it shampoo, I said, no, no, no, not shampoo. It’s cleansing conditioner. And I always corrected everybody.

Courtney: (40:22)  Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Correct it. Yes.

Chaz: (40:50)  up until now five years later and Oprah walked away with her gift basket and saying, I can’t wait to shampoo my hair. And because it was Oprah, I let her call it shampoo. Even as I left the set that day on my drive home, I thought I should have stopped her and correct her and said cleansing because she would remember that. So lesson to people and everyone, if anyone ever calls your company or you or name, whatever it is, a brand of something outside of what you’d want them to, even if it’s Oprah, no matter who it is.

Courtney: (41:01)  Ha! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (41:21)  I to this day now I even as I went off to set I would have corrected said you mean Cleansing because that would have stuck more with her. So Having said that I got home that day and I knew

Courtney: (41:26)  Right, right.

Chaz: (41:34)  that I handed it to Oprah and Oprah was every nine in 2005. She was like talk show every everything. So I’m like, I just handed it to Oprah, the housewives are using it. Housewives is worldwide. If QVC doesn’t want it now, they’ll never if they don’t want it now, they’ll never want it. So the element is, is it gave me that confidence. That’s what we’re talking about. You asked me why this is what gave me the confidence knowing I handed it to Oprah. I didn’t use her name because I know you don’t use her name without her permission. But having the confidence know I handed it to her and know she’s going to

Courtney: (41:38)  Huge. Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.

Chaz: (42:04)  it had me call QVC and because I had the confidence finally I was always afraid I might get a no so I was afraid to call because I was afraid it might be a no. At this point if they don’t want it now they’ll never want it so I called and they weren’t there I left a message it went back and forth all the way until the end of March so from January now all the way the end of March telephone tagged back and forth with QVC and finally they call and I said I have your attorney on the line I have QVC on the line I’m like I’ll take QVC I’ll call my attorney back

Courtney: (42:04)  Yeah. Right? Right, right, right. Yeah.

Chaz: (42:34)  because I can get my screening, I know that. So I got on the line with QVC and she says, hi, I’m Melanie from QVC and we’d be interested in setting up a time to meet with you at some point. And I said, sure, I’d love to. And she said, said, when? She goes, how does next week sound? I’m like, I’ll be there. So it was April 4th of 2005, I met with them. And the other part that’s amazing with this story is I had a client.

Courtney: (42:34)  Yeah. Yeah!

Chaz: (42:57)  who was an executive sales coach and she was working with Guthrie Ranker, which was proactive, the number one, the number one of infomercials, number one. They did number one, especially back in 2005. And she told me once I get in, I get my feet wet. Cause she was a 60 year old woman. I changed her life. She goes, I have hair that I’ve never had in my life because it was thin and I got it so much fuller and better. She goes, as soon as I get my feet and I feel comfortable enough, I’m going to tell them about when. The irony is the night before I went

Courtney: (43:02)  Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (43:27)  to Pennsylvania for QVC. She says, I have a meeting with them. I want to come by and pick up the win. She met with them the same morning, the same day I was in Pennsylvania meeting with QVC. She was meeting with Guthrie Rinker in the Palm Desert on the same day, April 4th, 2005. I’m like, how, what are those odds? So I came out of my meeting and again, at this point, Nicole Murphy was using it. She had five kids with Eddie Murphy. Not one of them has the same hair type. It works on everyone that I know that.

Courtney: (43:42)  No. Bizarre, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (43:57)  So I told them that because I’m like Nicole Murphy’s fine. She was blinded by the gallon. She’s like fine with me talking about it. So I did and as we walked out of the room, I’m like if you were going to do this, how would it work? Like, no, not if we are doing this. So they took me through QVC. We walked through it. I called her name was Carol Segrave. I called Carol and said, hey, I just met with them. My gosh, this is so good. She goes, well, let me tell you when I first met with them this morning, I mentioned I mentioned about hair care and they said no, no, no.

Courtney: (44:01)  Yeah. Win.

Chaz: (44:27)  we don’t do hair care. And then they said, she says, well, let me just tell you a little bit about him. And she started to tell me about him. And they said, wait a minute, does his name happen to be Chaz Dean? And so they said, yes, but they didn’t do hair care. She said they broke and they went for lunch. And when they came back an hour later, she said, Chaz, they fired questions at me. They went and they researched you. Why we’re at lunch, they researched you. They had every question in the world for me. And.

Courtney: (44:36)  Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (44:54)  It happened on the same day, April 4th of 2005. And that one, took all the way from April 4th of 2005. They were very slow, Guthrie Rinker. We didn’t launch the information until January 2007. They were slow. I went on QVC August 27th of 2005. Was that five months later, I went on QVC and they took over a year and half for their part to happen. And I was already like a household name and da da. So it

Courtney: (44:58)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chaz: (45:24)  All the confidence gave me was Oprah was the final straw. The house lights were a huge part. Yeah, Oprah was my final straw. They’re like, Oprah, I just handed it to Oprah. You don’t want it. You’re never going to want this. So in 2005, she was everything. She was everything. And I’m not taking away from now, but she was everything then. Everyone. Her word was gospel. And if she said it, you did it.

Courtney: (45:28)  Right. Yeah, it’s Especially at that time, like in history where it’s just, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Of course, Yeah.

Chaz: (45:49)  Yeah. So it was that, but I had so many celebs using it. And then when on air with Ryan Seacrest was on, if you remember that, when he would do those shows, would, we were the gift. The gift that you would get was when, so everyone that was on his show would get when. So it just crazy snowballed. And I know it’s going to come up to your AI question. That’s why I’m like, I’m not, mine’s always been word of mouth. All you do is you see the difference in your hair and that’s what does it. It’s instead of them telling you, you don’t need to try this. Like I see the difference in yours.

Courtney: (45:55)  Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Nice, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (46:19)  I need to know what are you doing.

Courtney: (46:20)  Yeah, well, so, I mean, there’s so many different brands that are celebrity endorsed, but they fade away over time, but you’ve really stayed. And you’re talking about like your first celebrity endorsements were like in the early 2000s. Culture has changed so much. So what do you think it is about your brand that has really been so sticky, not only with celebrity endorsements, but being able to like grow and build beyond that, you know?

Chaz: (46:45)  I know this because even my models on QVC say it. So my models that I have on QVC, this August will be their 20th going there. Well, this is my 20th year, so they’ll be going into their 21st year. So in the models that have been with me from day one for 20 years now say you don’t stick with a product that doesn’t work and that’s the point. If it didn’t work, it wouldn’t have that. It’s not smoke and mirrors. And I’m gonna say this because when I first started at QVC, there was someone with a brand that’s no longer there and he was doing great.

Courtney: (47:01)  Yeah. So true.

Chaz: (47:15)  I was doing great. He’s like, I want to brand with you. It was before I even knew what that really meant. And to be honest with you, I was 20 something. Like, what is branding? I really didn’t know what it meant because it was before the huge internet stuff for real. And so when he said, I’m like, didn’t know what that meant. But what he said is you’re hot. My brand’s hot. We got to get in and strike while we’re hot. And I’m like, no, that’s not who I am. I’m here for the long term. And needless to say, he was there maybe maybe a year and a half, maybe two years and completely.

Courtney: (47:20)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (47:45)  gone now. It’s because all he want is to get in, get them all you can and get out quick. And it’s never been my thing. It’s like I’ve always listened to my customer. I’ve always grown with my customer. I’ve always taken feedback from my customer. I create my products off of a void that I need or my customers need or someone needs. It’s never been, here I got something. It’s not the smoke and mirrors. And even when we shot our first infomercial, I want to tell you this, our first infomercial when we shot it.

Courtney: (47:50)  Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (48:12)  Matthew Ralston was hot at the time and I loved his videos and so forth, beautiful, beautiful work. And he’s the one that would be my vision, because I knew it would be beautiful being a photographer. And they hooked me up with a guy and he knows this, so I’m not saying anything I haven’t said to him. A guy who they brought to me and I’m like, he shoots beauty and all. I’m he looked like a truck driver and he knows that because I’ve told him, his name was Bob. He did every one of our infomercials. He was amazing and incredible, but he didn’t look like he would shoot beauty at all. And so the element

Courtney: (48:14)  Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right.

Chaz: (48:42)  was is that’s who shot everyone over in for us. It’s incredible, Bob. But I said from the very day one, I’m like, I don’t want any smoke and mirrors. It is what it is. I don’t. We didn’t use any curl irons, any flat irons. Everything we did is what I teach and what I do. We didn’t cheat. Don’t do. He’s like, you can do it. I’m going to tell you, you can do it. It’s possible. It will be extremely hard because everything else is smoke and mirrors. And I’m like, I want I have nothing to hide. Pull back the curtain. There’s nothing.

Courtney: (48:47)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (49:12)  to hide here. So it’s not. And unfortunately, you answer your own question, why did they not last because it’s smoke and mirrors. And it’s like, most products, okay, most products that you see from the big companies, I want to name them, you’ll see a product that comes out and the claims that they make are intense. But is that product there a year later? Most of them know because the claims they make, they know they can’t sustain it. But they get in, they get that and they get out. They come back with something else and they get you and they get in there and they get out. It’s not who I’m

Courtney: (49:17)  Yeah. Right.

Chaz: (49:42)  But pay attention to that now and someone gave me a device long ago that they make these claims because they know by the time someone calls them out on the claims that product’s gone So they have nothing they’re out with another one and they’re out with another one and that’s what you’ll see in the in the Goliath of the brands and it’s not who I am I’ve had the same sweet almond mint for 25 years like everyone I have they don’t change They’re the same for I’ve been with the lab that I work with for 30 years because it was five years

Courtney: (49:43)  Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (50:12)  creating in 25 years in the market. So I’ve been with them from day one. It’s authentic, it’s real, and it’s the people that are spokespeople for these, they really use it. They’re not just putting their name to a product. And I never won that. I’m like, that was the other part. I’m like, I won’t take on someone who…

Courtney: (50:17)  Mm-hmm. Yes. Right.

Chaz: (50:32)  doesn’t they have to use it and so forth meaning I wouldn’t do one that I’m just gonna slap my name on it so that was the element I’ve always been in that vein as well so yeah I don’t care again if you’re Taylor Swift if you’re Taylor Swift and you’re to use one and you don’t use one sorry it’s not going to happen so yeah it’s always been that element so it’s sustains time

Courtney: (50:45)  Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, well, yeah, I’m- when you think about the beauty, especially if you’re a small brand and you’re growing, which obviously you’re not anymore, but when you are growing, the way you grow as a beauty brand is to get repeat purchases. And you’re constantly bringing in new customers, but you have to have repeat business because it’s so expensive to find new customers. And so I feel like all these kind of independent brands that then take off, it’s because they have a good, it’s a proven product. It just is. And so that seems to be where your success has been. Because you have these celebrities who are using it who are actually using it. And so when they talk about it, you can feel their authenticity and you’re not relying on it purely. Just getting it. As long as you can get it into the hands of people, then you know it will come back. So, yeah.

Chaz: (51:37)  That’s exactly it. We do, because we do all these events and whatnot and gifting suites and whatnot. The funny part is I found out, my gosh, now it’s probably, I don’t remember how many years ago, but you remember the show Castle?

Courtney: (51:47)  Mm-hmm, yeah.

Chaz: (51:48)  I never knew this till towards the end to the end of the show. And I got a letter from her catastatic and I never knew she was a WEN girl, but I’m like, makes sense. Cause I watched that show and she looked like a WEN commercial the whole time. Her hair was always gorgeous and shiny and whatnot. And I should have known from that. Cause I say, you can tell WEN girls by the hair. It moves, it swings, it shines, it bounces and so forth. And she’s like, you saved my hair. Cause everything that goes through on set is WEN has saved my hair. And she’s like, I’ve used it from, and then I ran into Nathan Filler who’s on the show as well.

Courtney: (51:58)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right.

Chaz: (52:18)  He’s friends with Ming Na who’s she’s a 25 year Wen girl. Her actually last name is Wen. She’s like, he’s named after me. So we’re good friends for 25 years, but he knows her and he said the same thing. I never would have known this, but it wasn’t until I met him when she was coming out with her, we went to the Galaxy premiere and I met him. He’s like, my gosh, you’re Wen. I love it. And I’m like, I don’t know it sometimes until I meet these people, but it’s really cool. It’s cool. Cause they speak about, the other part I’m going to say is Bradley Cooper being, he was a Wen guy. Don’t know if he’s still.

Courtney: (52:43)  Yeah.

Chaz: (52:48)  because this goes back years. So I would think he still is. But anytime he had a new movie, he would always get his leading ladies on when and introduce them to when. There are so many stories that are incredible. And I happened to be on a plane with him one time coming back from London. So we were doing QBC London. And he was sleeping. We were up in first class. He was sleeping. I didn’t want to disturb him. But I knew I had to before the plane ended because I had to introduce. Like, he didn’t know me. I just knew he knew when and that he would get all his leading ladies to do it.

Courtney: (52:49)  Right. Wow. Yeah. Wait. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (53:18)  So I just want to do that. Hey, I’m Chaz Dean. I’m the guy from when whatnot. So I don’t always know. Sometimes you hear through the grapevine and with social media, sometimes you find out now, but it’s cool when you find out. Wow. I never would have known that. The other person that is the coolest one. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Ding, ding, ding. My God. Hold on.

Courtney: (53:20)  Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Wow.

Chaz: (53:45)  When QVC would shoot at the Four Seasons here, they would do remotes here. There was these two beautiful black women that came up to me and said, I don’t know if you know this, but Patti LaBelle uses when anyone that comes to her house, she sits them down, she puts on your infomercial and she tells them all about, and to this day I’ve never met her. I don’t even know things she knows that I know this, but to know that she lets women of color, especially know you’ve got to use this product. I’m like, I’ve never met her. I don’t know her, but these two ladies sharing this story and telling me, yeah, she sits them down. She tells them all about when you got to get this product. I’m like,

Courtney: (54:05)  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was really cool.

Chaz: (54:20)  There’s so many stories out there that I don’t know, which is, again, it’s social media sometimes that happens, but this is for anyone in the message out there. You never know, the reason I’m saying is, you never know when you throw that rock out there, the ripple effect on who it’s gonna touch. You never know. Sometimes you know and that’s cool, but you’ll never know all of it. You just have to know that what you’re doing is helping.

Courtney: (54:28)  Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

Chaz: (54:43)  change lives and when you’re talking about a cleansing can assure like how’s that going to change your life like trust me it does the real confidence confidence is everything

Courtney: (54:51)  That’s so true. I mean, that’s how your story started. Know, it’s just getting confidence in yourself, getting to take that next leap. And I think overall, the story, what I’ve been so impressed by with your story is that you just barrel through. It’s like you see these opportunities and you just take them and you you start as a photographer. You’re like, well, I need to do hair. And then you’re like, OK, that’s it. And then, OK, you’re taking the opportunities and I think that a lot of times what holds people back, like entrepreneurs, is just the fear of failure. And even when you were scared that someone was going to steal what you’re doing, yeah, how to do it. Yeah, but like…

Chaz: (55:26)  or how to do it, how to do it as well, but go ahead. How to do it or the fear of failure, go ahead.

Courtney: (55:31)  Right, but you’re, even when you were afraid that someone might steal your ideas or that QVC might say no, the thing that got you over the hump was a boost of confidence here or there, really believing in what you were doing because it must have been scary to be like, I’m gonna tell people to stop shampooing their hair. I’m sure that there was a ton of pushback at first, but yeah.

Chaz: (55:53)  Well, they thought I was crazy. I’m like, just trust me. It’s like, I didn’t use shampoo hair. Feel your hair right now. How does it feel? Like, it feels great. I’m like, that’s what it would do. And if you do it right, it’ll get better and better and better. And it does. It’s funny. I just showed him I’m going through videos. And I ran across one from nine years ago of a client. And I’m like, I need to show her now, because she’s in her 60s. And I have one when she was in her 50s here. I’m like, her hair is 10 times better than it was when she first started. I just, I found, I’m like,

Courtney: (55:59)  Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (56:23)  I’ve got to show her that because her hair now is down the middle of her back. She’s 10 years older than she was then and her hair is so much better now. And it’s like, it blows me away when I see her. I’m like, her hair now is insane. And she’s in her sixties. It’s almost all one length down the past the middle of her back. And in the one here, it was about to here and it looked good. It looked pretty, but now I’m like, I can’t believe that was her. I forgot that it was like that almost 10 years ago. So knowing 10 years later, was that?

Courtney: (56:24)  Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. And thank goodness you took the before. Good thing that you have the before. Take the video, Yeah. Well, to kind of wrap up here, one thing that I always ask every guest is if you could give yourself a piece of advice when you were just starting out when, what would it be?

Chaz: (56:54)  I have all those, see, and that’s why. That’s why, it’s true, that’s why. That’s funny. Trust your instinct. What I always tell people is just because no one’s ever done it doesn’t mean it can’t or shouldn’t be done. It just means no one’s done it. If everyone didn’t do things no one’s ever done, we wouldn’t have inventions, things wouldn’t happen. So yeah, if you have an idea, a concept or whatnot.

Courtney: (57:20)  Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (57:30)  And I say, still stand with this, hold that in, don’t share that with everyone because no one could steal your idea or at least take a version they believe of your, like right now, I was the first ever on the market cleansing conditioner. Now, almost every product out there, or every company out there has their version of cleansing conditioner. And how that works against me is when people say, oh, I tried cleansing conditioner, doesn’t work. I’m like, was it when? No, but they’re all the same. Like, no, they’re not. I was a founder creator. Yeah, they are piggybacked and they’re not the same.

Courtney: (57:35)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. No, I have a patent. Yeah.

Chaz: (58:00)  because it’s never been done before doesn’t mean it can’t or shouldn’t. Follow your gut, follow your instinct, follow your intuition. I did tons of meditation and prayer work on it. Even with my formulas, would sit in the room with my candles lit and I would have a way that I meditate and I asked the candles question and a flicker or a jump of the flicker was a yes or a no. I would ask for specific but what is my yes and what is my no and I would ask my questions. Is this a forma? Do I

Courtney: (58:03)  Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (58:30)  keep going? Do I need to add some of this? Do I need to remove some of that? That’s how I did it and everyone will find their way to do it. But mine was through prayer and meditation. I remember I was with my partner at the time and I would be up till all hours of the night, which I still am. And he was sleeping. He woke up in the middle of night and he said, I woke up and it was just

Courtney: (58:32)  Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (58:50)  And it was just a candle, just remember it was one candle. But they said they woke up and they just saw light radiating, beaming from the room, because I was in the room next to them. And it’s what they experienced from my prayer work and meditation. They said they woke up and they could just feel the light pulsating and radiating from that room that I was in. And it’s, I need to get back to that more because it’s what got me to where I’m at. Life has happened and I do my meditation and prayer work, but not as intense as I did with that.

Courtney: (58:52)  Yes. Wow. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (59:20)  And I 100 % believe it, 100 % helped.

Courtney: (59:20)  Yeah. Wow, yeah, I’ve never heard that before, but that’s really, and it obviously worked for you, so.

Chaz: (59:27)  Yeah, well the irony is, irony, the blessing and the curse here is the irony of that, it worked for me and my partner at the time. Tried the same thing and lit the room on fire. And I’m not joking, lit the room on fire. It didn’t trash the house, but the wall. And I have my mom’s hope chest on fire because was more careless with it, whatnot. So be cautious with it, whatnot. But mine is like, I had it in the middle room. I had a safe space and whatnot. And I do for me, it’s what works for you. It could be those little, those, you know what I mean?

Courtney: (59:38)  Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, the sound bath things, yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (1:00:00) But yup, left, right, left, right, up and down, whatever it is, it’s with working with your energy and how you receive your answers to the universe. We’re all energy. I’m like, we leave here, again, this is going off-cut, but we don’t leave here male, we don’t leave here female, we leave energy. That’s all it is. There’s no sex attached to it. It’s just energy. You’re not male, you’re not female. You are literally just energy. What suit you put on for the day, whatever you put on for the day, that’s what you then become. But it is literally just

Courtney: (1:00:07) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chaz: (1:00:30) So however energy connects with you or you connect with it to get your answers or whatever you’re looking for

Courtney: (1:00:38) Yeah.

Chaz: (1:00:38) stop attaching sex to it. Sex is not attached to it. It’s just energy. It’s just energy. It’s like the same thing with dogs. It’s like they’re male, they’re female. It’s not that they’re humping each other. It’s not, again, you don’t call them gay because they’re dogs humping. It’s just, it’s energy. So yeah, I don’t know how we get in that. And I’m not trying to go in a different direction, but just connect your energy however it is and stop putting walls up because it is. Walls are blocks and you know that. I could have done that. I could have been scared to enter any of this and wouldn’t be here.

Courtney: (1:00:48) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s amazing. Mean, and how are you spending your energy? Know, like that’s kind if you break it down by that, it’s like how do you communicate with your energy and how do you use it and what are you spending it on, you know? Right, right.

Chaz: (1:01:19) in order you’re focusing on positive or negative energy. Because whatever it is you focus on, if Marisol is my housekeeper, she always tell me, you skinny, you skinny, you skinny. She’s telling me all the time and she’ll say, I’m fat, meaning her. I’m fat, I’m fat, I’m fat. Last night I was eating something and she’s like, no, I’m like Marisol, I’m skinny, I can do it. Because she always tells me you’re skinny, skinny. Because I tell myself that. My mom growing up, my mom always said, I look at food, I gain weight. I look at food, I gain weight. I look at food, of course you do, because you’re telling yourself that. I would say as a kid,

Courtney: (1:01:27) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (1:01:49) because I was too skinny and I would say, can’t gain weight no matter what I eat. Can’t gain weight no matter what I can’t gain weight no matter what I eat. Can’t gain gain weight. So that was my message, my mantra. Hers was I look at food, I gain weight. Marisol, I I fat, I fat. I’m like, stop telling yourself that you are, you can’t say I’m good and be bad. You can’t say I’m bad and be good. I’ve had dogs that are crazy and rambunctious and people say, my God, she’s the devil. I’m like, meaning they’re being funny, but I’m like, nope, that’s my angel. That’s my angel. And she’s the one I just lost and she was rambunctious and crazy.

Courtney: (1:01:51) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.

Chaz: (1:02:19) as a puppy, but I always said, she’s my angel. She’s my perfect angel. She would get into mischievous stuff. And like, is she still your angel? I’m like, yep, she’s my angel. She grew up to be perfection and my angel. I didn’t tell her you’re a bad girl, you’re a bad girl. She’s gonna be a bad girl. If I tell her you’re good, you’re my angel, I’m your angel, you’re gonna grow into what it is you say. It is all energy and it’s what you’re putting out there, what you’re saying, what you’re thinking, what you’re feeling is what’s gonna come out of it. And that’s in your business and in your life.

Courtney: (1:02:24) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (1:02:49) So look at what you’re focused on. Is it negative? Is it positive? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it what you want it to be? If it’s not what you want it to be, like, don’t give it any time. It’s free rent in your head. Yeah. I wouldn’t be where I’m at if I focused on the bad.

Courtney: Wasserburger (1:02:49) Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Well. Yeah, I mean, that’s really good. Really good advice for yourself in the past, but also for entrepreneurs and beauty founders who are just getting started today. Kind of last question here, where can people find you online? Where can people buy your products?

Chaz: (1:03:22) Chazdean.com is my website. Obviously QVC.com is one as well, Chazdean.com is mine where we have everything. QVC has some things. On Instagram, TikTok is Chazdean. Facebook, Chazdean fan page. I do have YouTube, which I’ve got to be so much better because they were going to take TikTok away and I know if they do, I need a place. So it’s official Chazdean on YouTube. I’m really bad at it. I’ve got to focus on that and do better on that. And then the other one that’s important is

Courtney: (1:03:42) You Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (1:03:52) Wen, W-E-N by Chaz Dean on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, they’re on every YouTube. When by Chaz Dean is on all platforms. But if you want to literally interact with me, it’s Instagram, Chaz Dean, TikTok, Chaz Dean, and Facebook, Chaz Dean fan page is the best way to interact. And Instagram’s one of the strongest in TikTok, because I go live a lot. So if they have questions, I can answer them. And it’s helpful. And I am there. I don’t hide behind the scrum. Just what you saw me.

Courtney: (1:04:04) Mm. Here you are.

Chaz: (1:04:21) It’s who I am. It’s who I am. Do you have a question? I’ll answer it. Yeah.

Courtney: (1:04:22) Perfect. Amazing. Everybody go follow Taz on various platforms. And thank you so much for being here today, Taz. I appreciate it. I you’re busy. Yes.

Chaz: (1:04:29) Go get them. Thank you. And one more thing I just want to say is my salon’s in Hollywood. So I have this salon in Hollywood that’s been there since 97 on Fountain, Chaz Dean Studio in Hollywood. And we opened one two years ago in New York. So we’re in Greenwich Village there. So that’s for people that can’t get their way to the West Coast. They now can to the East Coast. So we’re at 59 Greenwich Avenue in the West Village and 6444 Fountain Avenue in Hollywood. Both places, and I usually go there every six weeks for about a week at a time, week or two at a time. So I’m in both places.

Courtney: (1:04:52) Right. Anything.

Chaz: (1:05:06) So come and see us come and visit us all the products are there if you have questions or smell them or look at them and the last thing we didn’t say is this one was the one I developed was the brush dryer and I did that because I got tired of people burning their hair with dryers that were too hot Singeing their hair when you lift your hair up mine’s price still damp I cleanse it last night and it’s air-drying but when you lift your hair up your thickness should be the same thickness from your roots all the way to your ends if It’s not and it gets thinner thinner and thinner. It’s what you’re doing to your hair. It’s not people think all my hair is thin

Courtney: (1:05:09) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chaz: (1:05:36) I’m like what grows out of your scalp is how thick your hair is if it gets thinner and weaker towards the ends It’s either shampoo harsh chemicals or heat or all of the above or color or bleach all of the or extensions all the above It’s what you’re doing to your hair stop abusing your hair and what’s growing out of your scalp is the actual thickness of your hair and that’s why I develop these and What I do get from this is people like my hair is so much fuller and thicker and it’s healthy again So yeah, stop burning your hair if you have those kind of dryers turn your heat

Courtney: (1:05:43) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz: (1:06:05) setting down to the lowest setting. If you have kind of have nozzles concentrators always use that or it singes your hair and burns your hair. So I developed one that you can’t do that. Yeah, you can’t burn your hair no matter what you try here because it doesn’t exceed 240. So thank you. And yeah, I create them for if I see a problem in the industry is the bottom line.

Courtney: (1:06:09) Mm-hmm. Or buy the breast dryer from when. That’s the key. Yeah. Thank you. Amazing. Well, we’re so excited to see all the new products that you come up with over the next couple of years and the brush dryer I’m really excited to try that out. So I will be purchasing one. And thank you to everyone at home or on the go for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please make sure to subscribe, share with a friend, leave us a review. And if there’s anything you’d like to hear on an upcoming episode, just let us know. For more insights, please follow us on LinkedIn or visit right left agency dot com. And we’ll be back next week with more stories of success.

Chaz: (1:06:31) Thank you. Thank you.

Courtney: (1:06:56) innovation and marketing strategies to help you grow. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Great job. I’m just going to stop the recording.

Chaz: (1:06:59) Thank you.